Cross Cultural Environmental Differences

[disc999golfer999]

An Eastern European woman said, "Our men are hard on us so we have to be harder on them." (I tried to find the post and couldn't locate it.) I intrepreted that as an environment comment since some Russian and Eastern women feel they are in a harsh environment. Because their men play tricks and decivious games on them they have learned how to implement defensive measures against that behavior. I intrepret some of the defensive measures to be "Mind Games" and some measure of "Mental Games of Torture".

This one girl played "Girlfriend Games" on her sponsor when she came to America. That is where she wants her girlfriend say that she wants to go to the store only to use it as an excuse to get her sponsor to drain his bank account. (It is really a larceny.) This girl wanted to be hard on her sponsor because she wanted him to drain his bank account as a way to show that she was "In Control" and had "Power" in the relationship. Certainly there are many marriages in America where the wife takes control and makes financial and other decisions for the family.

Many Eastern European and Russian women are in an environment where that behavior is common. When they come to the US their sponsor is exposed to this behavior. I have seen many examples where that behavior has destroyed the relationship.

Can someone please explain this hardness and what implications it would have in a cross cultural marriage? To me I see this as being a borderline behavior, if the hardness wasn't associated with some form of responsibility in the relationship. For example you could say the woman was hard on her husband because of his gambling addicition.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6008/stubbornwoman.jpg

[yankee]

I know of several "cross cultural" marriages and none of them have the attitudes that you speak of. Perhaps you are onlly refering to "mail order" brides where neither one of the parties really knows each other before marriage.

My wife was a university professor when she lived in "eastern europe" and has now retrained herself as a dental assistant and a sales clerk at Macy's so she can earn her own money for the things she wants to spend on herself. She does not like being financially dependent upon me. This is what I see in many "cross cultural" marriages.

The successful marriages I know of in "eastern europe" there is no "Our men are hard on us so we have to be harder on them." The husbands are very gentle and loving. I am not even remotely aware of the "eastern europe" you are talking about.

[Gabber]

what disco said has happened often from what I have read over the years but I have no clue of how long the relationships had been before marriage.

It's like anything else, people get played and we pretend to learn from the experience.

[yankee]

what disco said has happened often from what I have read over the years but I have no clue of how long the relationships had been before marriage.

It's like anything else, people get played and we pretend to learn from the experience.

how many of thoes experiences are purchased brides?

[Gabber]

how many of thoes experiences are purchased brides?

purchased is a heavy word. The guys go over, they meet someone they hope will be there wife and they invite them to the US or they get visa for other countries. What happens when the lady arrives is another story. The guy gets played or he has lied about his life all along and therefore girl takes off. Either way, no love

[disc999golfer999]

Purchased? Did you read that other successful post about the guy who paid $20,000 to bring his girl to the US? Did you see my post about it costing almost 23,799?
(http://www.luckylovers.net/f/text/87.The+Hidden+Expenses+of+a+Foreign+Bride)
http://www.luckylovers.net/f/text/87.The+Hidden+Expenses+of+a+Foreign+Bride
In my view the man or woman who is doing the sponsoring is using their money to facilitate the event.

Yes there are many situations where the man lies to the woman and the woman lies to the man.
One lie that is common is based upon the fact that we lie to ourselves.
For another lie is one that men tell. They may say they have an income of 100,000 a year. (For many woman that is a threshold that they want to hear. Then the woman will find out that that 100,000 a year is degraded by someone paying spousal and child support. That reduces that person's effective income down to 65,000 a year. 2 kids and 660 support each kid = 15,840 and 21,384 pre tax income. Source https://fortress.wa.gov/dshs/csips/ssgen/ "Washington State Child Support Schedule". Add spousal support of 800 a month,r 9600 a year = 12K in pre tax income.)
Don't some form of mild lie exist in most all successful relationships? A spouse might lie to their partner in order to organize a suprise party for them on their 50th birthday. A spouse might lie to their partner in order to keep their spending problem under control. They may disclose there is less family income in order to keep the overspending problem from bankrupting the family finances.

[yankee]

Purchased? Did you read that other successful post about the guy who paid $20,000 to bring his girl to the US? Did you see my post about it costing almost 23,799?
(http://www.luckylovers.net/f/text/87.The+Hidden+Expenses+of+a+Foreign+Bride)
http://www.luckylovers.net/f/text/87.The+Hidden+Expenses+of+a+Foreign+Bride
In my view the man or woman who is doing the sponsoring is using their money to facilitate the event.

Yes there are many situations where the man lies to the woman and the woman lies to the man.
One lie that is common is based upon the fact that we lie to ourselves.
For another lie is one that men tell. They may say they have an income of 100,000 a year. (For many woman that is a threshold that they want to hear. Then the woman will find out that that 100,000 a year is degraded by someone paying spousal and child support. That reduces that person's effective income down to 65,000 a year. 2 kids and 660 support each kid = 15,840 and 21,384 pre tax income. Source https://fortress.wa.gov/dshs/csips/ssgen/ "Washington State Child Support Schedule". Add spousal support of 800 a month,r 9600 a year = 12K in pre tax income.)
Don't some form of mild lie exist in most all successful relationships? A spouse might lie to their partner in order to organize a suprise party for them on their 50th birthday. A spouse might lie to their partner in order to keep their spending problem under control. They may disclose there is less family income in order to keep the overspending problem from bankrupting the family finances.

Whether a person is using LL or Match.com or any other method for meeting a potential spouse I don’t see any difference. The purpose of these sites is to only facilitate meeting someone. Once two people have met that is only the beginning of the process. Distance only adds complexity to the situation. If a couple only meets once or twice and then decides to marry I don’t see much chance for success. These types of marriages have been successful by statistically most end in failure.
I can only use my experience as a personal example and do not wish to impose it on someone else but I have seen several others that had similar experiences with success.
If you met someone within 50 miles of your home would you suggest to her that she move in for five months or so and then suggest that this is only a trial basis and if you both fall in love you will get married? I don’t think so. Why should you treat a woman from a foreign country different? Because it is expensive? You bet it is expensive!
My wife used to wait until midnight her time (4:00pm Eastern time) and then we would chat for an hour or so. This was almost every day for 3 years. Three times a year we would “vacation” together. In lieu of the fiancée visa she got a tourist visa and stayed with me for three months before we finally decided to get married. During this three year romance I had the opportunity to meet her family and she had the opportunity to meet my family.

From a financial point of view, figure the cost of three vacations in Europe per year for three years. $20,000 doesn't even scratch the surface.

[disc999golfer999]

...........Why should you treat a woman from a foreign country different? Because it is expensive? You bet it is expensive!
My wife used to wait until midnight her time (4:00pm Eastern time) and then we would chat for an hour or so. This was almost every day for 3 years. Three times a year we would “vacation” together. In lieu of the fiancée visa she got a tourist visa and stayed with me for three months before we finally decided to get married. ........

Were you concerned that her finacee visa would not get approved if you had the tourist visa history? I have heard of many cases where the bride does not get approved for the K-1 visa because the government thinks they have been abusing the visa process.

This one couple has a similar problem. She lives in Ukraine. He is from America. She came on a tourist visa for 3 months. He went to Ukraine recently because she has run out of her VISA options. She can't get a fiancee visa to come to the US because of her visa history.

When I visited that girl in March in Ukraine she expressed wanting to vacation the world and go to Egypt, Turkey, etc... Sure I want to vacation the world but it is difficult when I have limits on the amout of $$ to spend.

I have seen successful relationships where the guy spends 1 trip going over 5 or 10 days to meet her before bringing her back to the USA.

[yankee]

Were you concerned that her finacee visa would not get approved if you had the tourist visa history? I have heard of many cases where the bride does not get approved for the K-1 visa because the government thinks they have been abusing the visa process.

When I visited that girl in March in Ukraine she expressed wanting to vacation the world and go to Egypt, Turkey, etc... Sure I want to vacation the world but it is difficult when I have limits on the amout of $$ to spend.



We never even though of her not getting a K-3 visa. The though of a K-1 never crossed our thoughts. She wanted to get married in Russia so that she could change all of her documents to reflect my last name and she wanted her friends and family to be at our wedding.

If a woman wants to travel the world on your dollar - I think you have the wrong woman!

[disc999golfer999]

...............

If a woman wants to travel the world on your dollar - I think you have the wrong woman!

Certainly that is true. The discussion never came up about me paying for her to go on international vacations. My discussion with her stopped because I quit using the website I met her through. Even though she and I had different methods of communication - Email; Skype, Text Messaging, voice, snai-mail, etc... She never replied back to my skype or email. She did reply to me on the website, but $50/mo is an expensive form of communication when there are alternatives. The website communication could have been supplimented by the other. Plus the website had many hidden costs. It was hard to know if the woman was only a paid escort or someone serious about looking for a partner. The website is a dating/escort service and I thought they were more marriage agency.

[Passerby]

I’ve always thought that looking for love and potential life partner specifically in foreign countries is pretty counter-productive an exercise. So more, in developing ones. So more, in the FSU. So more in Russia and Ukraine. So more, via dating agencies or sites.

You see, there ARE cultural differences in fundamental life values, concepts of family bonds and responsibilities, believes and habits. In Russia, historically, the institution of marriage has been based on economic reasons primarily, with very little or even no appreciation of the emotional connection between spouses. Twenty years after the collapse of the USSR, still, there ARE huge social and economic incentives for women to prioritize a man’s resources over his personal qualities, except of those that make the access to the resources easier.

Sixty five percent of marriages in Russia and 63% in Ukraine end up in divorce, with much higher rate in urban areas. It’s accompanied by a shockingly high rate of suicide among males, and marriage and birth rates catastrophically swooping down in the last decade. Ukraine has the fastest growing epidemic of HIV in Europe and one of the fastest in the world. Does not it add something to a portrait of the "lost ideal"?

The FSU women who are calculatedly looking for a human vehicle to get to the West just HAVE TO BE quite specific a breed. Always gold-diggers, most of them well equipped with the qualities the specialization requires: good-looking, smart, goal-oriented, flexible, manipulative, and cynical. Very patient and focused, too: an average time spent on catching a trophy is three or four years. Three or four years of full time job involving maintaining a marketable appearance, studying the art of manipulation, intense communication with a bunch of guys at the same time, scheduling numerous travels and dates to meet them all (of course, at their expense). It’s a tough life that leaves no chance for sentiments. Gentleness and affection some men crave for perhaps could never be in there.

[L.D.]

Did you see my post about it costing almost 23,799?
almost :lol2: (was it 23,798 and 73 cents?)
you made my day, thanks :laugh1:

[Gabber]

I’ve always thought that looking for love and potential life partner specifically in foreign countries is pretty counter-productive an exercise. So more, in developing ones. So more, in the FSU. So more in Russia and Ukraine. So more, via dating agencies or sites.

You see, there ARE cultural differences in fundamental life values, concepts of family bonds and responsibilities, believes and habits. In Russia, historically, the institution of marriage has been based on economic reasons primarily, with very little or even no appreciation of the emotional connection between spouses. Twenty years after the collapse of the USSR, still, there ARE huge social and economic incentives for women to prioritize a man’s resources over his personal qualities, except of those that make the access to the resources easier.

Sixty five percent of marriages in Russia and 63% in Ukraine end up in divorce, with much higher rate in urban areas. It’s accompanied by a shockingly high rate of suicide among males, and marriage and birth rates catastrophically swooping down in the last decade. Ukraine has the fastest growing epidemic of HIV in Europe and one of the fastest in the world. Does not it add something to a portrait of the "lost ideal"?

The FSU women who are calculatedly looking for a human vehicle to get to the West just HAVE TO BE quite specific a breed. Always gold-diggers, most of them well equipped with the qualities the specialization requires: good-looking, smart, goal-oriented, flexible, manipulative, and cynical. Very patient and focused, too: an average time spent on catching a trophy is three or four years. Three or four years of full time job involving maintaining a marketable appearance, studying the art of manipulation, intense communication with a bunch of guys at the same time, scheduling numerous travels and dates to meet them all (of course, at their expense). It’s a tough life that leaves no chance for sentiments. Gentleness and affection some men crave for perhaps could never be in there.

this is a very interesting perspective. I also had no idea that HIV is rampant in Ukraine

[yankee]

this is a very interesting perspective. I also had no idea that HIV is rampant in Ukraine

I’ve always thought that looking for love and potential life partner specifically in foreign countries is pretty counter-productive an exercise. So more, in developing ones. So more, in the FSU. So more in Russia and Ukraine. So more, via dating agencies or sites.

You see, there ARE cultural differences in fundamental life values, concepts of family bonds and responsibilities, believes and habits. In Russia, historically, the institution of marriage has been based on economic reasons primarily, with very little or even no appreciation of the emotional connection between spouses. Twenty years after the collapse of the USSR, still, there ARE huge social and economic incentives for women to prioritize a man’s resources over his personal qualities, except of those that make the access to the resources easier.

Sixty five percent of marriages in Russia and 63% in Ukraine end up in divorce, with much higher rate in urban areas. It’s accompanied by a shockingly high rate of suicide among males, and marriage and birth rates catastrophically swooping down in the last decade. Ukraine has the fastest growing epidemic of HIV in Europe and one of the fastest in the world. Does not it add something to a portrait of the "lost ideal"?

The FSU women who are calculatedly looking for a human vehicle to get to the West just HAVE TO BE quite specific a breed. Always gold-diggers, most of them well equipped with the qualities the specialization requires: good-looking, smart, goal-oriented, flexible, manipulative, and cynical. Very patient and focused, too: an average time spent on catching a trophy is three or four years. Three or four years of full time job involving maintaining a marketable appearance, studying the art of manipulation, intense communication with a bunch of guys at the same time, scheduling numerous travels and dates to meet them all (of course, at their expense). It’s a tough life that leaves no chance for sentiments. Gentleness and affection some men crave for perhaps could never be in there.

All I can say to the above is that the author is very jilted. It almost sounds as if the author falls in to the “old man” seeking “young girl” category. If one is much older, most of the women willing to date, let alone marry a much older man are gold diggers in the most part.
Yes, the divorce rate is very high in the FSU countries. In the US we just cheat and occasionally, get caught. Of the many couples that attended my wedding, all were on their first marriage, had one or two children in successful marriages and ALL marriages appeared to be happy. There was one marriage that wasn’t good but the couple was well into their late 60s and I don’t think either one is thinking divorce.
My suggestion to the above author is to look locally because it is easier and cheaper to find a “gold digger” locally than one that is overseas.

[huney]

Gold-digger? Did someone call my name? :biggrin:

Seriously though, Yankee has a point. If all you want is someone a decade or more younger than you as a piece of eye-candy hanging on your every word whilst she picks your pocket, there are thousands of them all over the world and hundreds just around the corner. I wish you the best of luck!

If you want a soul-mate... a mate-for-life, best look around that same corner - for that little bit other men might call nothing special. She is there. She's only waiting for you to open your heart and extend your hand. In exchange for that small gesture she will blossom and with her bring you a world of possibilities. Save her from a life of trivialities and a world of men with unrealistic expectations. Give her an opportunity to bring into your life her own particular little piece of heaven.

Just for a moment, stop thinking about your bank accounts and think about her. Whoever she might be.