Thai woman story in letters to editor

[belano4ka]

Like the beacons that wreckers once used to lure ships onto the rocks, websites offering Thai mail-order brides continue to claim hapless farang victims. Today's story concerns a recently divorced American in his early forties who's in danger of being holed below the waterline. His concerned farang girlfriend takes up the story. Dear David
I might be an unusual reader on your site... I am a "Farang" woman, an American. Perhaps I am one of the hated on your site. I do not know since it would seem opinions are split on American women from what I have read.
However, I need some closure on an issue and I do hope you can give it to me.
I live in the western part of America. I am 38, very attractive. It is not uncommon for people to assume I am much, much younger than my age. I have aged very well. I am successful, well educated, polite and respectful. While I am independent, I do believe in a traditional relationship with a man. I will admit I am rare for an American woman.
Anyway, I met a guy, 5 years older than I, last year. He claimed to want a woman who loved family (to help raise his two kids from his recent divorce) who liked to cook, was very sexual, liked music, had a job, was educated and would take care of him. As he dated me, he was in awe. Not only did I completely fit his profile but I had my own house and it is a nice house, money in the bank and no debt. He kept saying he could never do better than me, only worse. We had much in common and enough differences to make it interesting.
However, he had a few faults which kept our relationship from progressing smoothly...
He had to have things immediately. After just 2 weeks dating, he wanted me to sell my house and move in with him. When I said it was too soon, he revealed yet another bad trait, a very bad temper. He was also getting over being screwed over by his ex-wife. He had just gotten divorced a few months ago and he was being medicated for his "temper" which was not working very well. But the worst was yet to come.
Stupid as I was, I took him back but he confessed that he was now toying with the idea of getting an Asian bride because he was sick of us American women. He felt Asian women would be more respectful, not give him a hard time while being sexual "freaks" in bed as he put it.
Anyway, he would go back and forth about this Asian thing over and over and toyed ruthlessly with my heart. Finally he started communicating with Thai girls in Bangkok over the Internet. He wanted me to wait for him while he went over to Bangkok and saw these girls. "It was between me and them" he said. They were of course much younger. He said they had only one thing going over me and that was they were 27ish. It was just a matter of weeks before our relationship ended. On this night, he said I either had to move into his house the next day after just 3 on and off months together or he was going to Bangkok. I let him go. I could not make such a huge decision when things had been so bad.
He spoke a lot about the women he was e-mailing with over in Thailand. They were 27-30 years old with a kid (so he felt they would not want to have any)...with a college degree and job. What he told me was that his girls were farm girls. They had told him they were "hot and spicy". They all lived in Bangkok. That they would take good care of him etc. When I told him they might want his money, he said "no way, they were angels. And was I suggesting that they wouldn't want him for his good looks?" When I said they might be hookers, he said "no there was a third class of woman in Thailand who worked at honest jobs and were looking for a good faithful man because Thai men were unfaithful. And besides no girl was going to play him."
Anyway, I want to know what his chances are of finding a good girl to share the rest of his life with are over there? From reading your site I get the impression his fantasy could very easily become a nightmare. ("Hot and Spicy" were not words you said "good" Thai girls use.) Is that so? I just think the odds are against you if you try to find a bride in a place like Bangkok in 20 days, knowing nothing about the girls except what they have told you on the Internet. Am I right? Please keep in mind, prior to this trip, this guy had never left the USA and he knows nothing of Asian culture.
I know you are thinking "get over it and move on" and know you have probably heard many stories involving men such as this, but this guy did toy with me ruthlessly and I would love to see him get a stiff kick in the "arse". Plus, I would love to know your thoughts on men like this guy. I Other than that, no worries, I will be moving on. Please give me some answers and some closure...
Many Thanks
A Western Girl



Dear Western Girl
You'd be surprised at how many farang women write to me and most of them are in the same boat as you.

Your boyfriend appears to be going through a messy mid-life crisis but, bearing in mind that he went through an acrimonious divorce so recently, this is hardly surprising. Emotionally charged legal battles tend to bring out the worst in people and the scars take a while to heal. Entering into another serious relationship so soon was bound to create a few problems.
I hope that he doesn't actually believe the preposterous candy-coated bullshit written about Thai women on the matchmaking websites. In reality, these girls are motivated primarily by money.
Women from poor families are put under great pressure to support their parents and, if they also happen to be single mothers, their options are very limited. Thailand isn't a welfare state so many of these poorly-educated women turn to prostitution to make ends meet. Marrying a farang is sometimes seen as an easier (or additional) option. To suggest that their intentions are romantic is laughable.
Plain girls often marry the first farang who comes along but these mismatched couplings tend to be unhappy and short-lived - particularly if the girl has to move abroad. The prettier girls quickly learn how to extract money from dozens of foreign suitors at the same time. Their schemes range in complexity from trotting out well-worn sob stories to perpetrating elaborate frauds.


Having said all that, though, tens of thousands of happily-married Thai/farang couples can be found living in towns and villages all over Thailand. The Internet doesn't really play much part in this, however. Typically, these couples meet in Pattaya - a popular coastal resort with a well-deserved reputation for that kind of thing.
If your boyfriend intends use the Internet to purchase himself a loyal, obedient sex-slave for export to the US, then he's in for a rude awakening. Real Thai women do not conform to this fantasy-driven media stereotype. It's true that they're brought up to be polite, charming and respectful but they're also extremely feisty and possess an almost supernatural ability to manipulate men. I have never in my whole life met a Thai girl who could be described as obedient.



From a cultural perspective, the Thais are an extremely conservative bunch. For them, the Thai way is always the right way and they're highly resistant to new ideas. To westerners, their behaviour is often rather baffling. For a mixed marriage to work, the farang partner has to be extremely accommodating. If he's not prepared to accept the Thai way of doing things - at least to some degree - then the relationship will most likely fail.
Your boyfriend's anger problem will also act against him. Thai people are extremely conflict adverse and farang-style temper tantrums make them recoil in horror. Expecting a Thai woman to form a relationship with an explosively angry farang man would be like expecting you to form a relationship with a methanol-drinking, dumpster-grazing madman with a vocabulary limited to the F-word.


I'll now attempt to answer your specific questions.
During his short visits to Thailand, your boyfriend's chances of finding a "good girl" to spend the rest of his life with are exceedingly slim. Thousands of desperados, con-artists and prostitutes are queuing up to pounce on naive new arrivals. Even long-term ex-pats get duped sometimes.
Ninety percent of cash-strapped country girls don't speak a word of English so their lovelorn begging letters are written by an agent. "Hot and Spicy" doesn't really imply anything - it's just telling men what they want to hear. If a poorly-educated country girl does speak good English, then it's a very bad sign. She's almost certainly a prostitute or a con-artist.
My thoughts about your boyfriend's behaviour are quite mixed. I empathise with his attraction to Thai women and I sincerely hope he doesn't get burned but the aspects of his behaviour that you related to me do seem to suggest that he has an insensitive and controlling nature. This in itself isn't an irredeemable flaw but, when combined with an anger problem, it's a good reason to take the relationship slowly. He'll probably improve once the dust from his divorce settles but I can fully understand your reluctance to sell the house and move in with him.


I wouldn't go as far as to say that men who make unaccompanied visits to Thailand are lost to farang women for ever but, for most western men, the slightest exposure to Thai girls creates an itch that will always need to be scratched (sometimes literally, unfortunately) and it's amazing how often this turns into an obsession.
I hope this helps.
Regards
David

[belano4ka]

Dear David,
Thanks so much for your speedy, thorough, and contentious reply.
Let me start by saying that, no, I do not think you are a misogynist. My apologies if this was the case. However, it does appear that some of your regular readers have had severe problems with past relationships which have left them scarred. And from reading virtually all I could on your site it appears to be cross-cultural not just "farang" related.
Let me also point out that I think your website should be required reading for any man hoping to make their fantasy of a Thai/Caucasian relationship a reality.
I would also agree with you that there are many, many very happy Asian/Caucasian relationships on this planet but I think you will agree that these were not quick, Internet, Bangkok, 20 day affairs but probably longer courtships with each party getting to know one another's culture respectively. Respect and love probably play a huge role in this with lust playing an important but minor role.
I have had a deep interest in Asian culture for many years, albeit Japanese in nature not Thai. Most of the facts you point out are very much in keeping with what I had come to expect from Asian culture. I'm not talking about the prostitution, but of the personality, cultural and behavior traits you have mentioned. I am constantly amazed at how many American men think Asian women are submissive, obedient and easily controlled when this is just simply not the case.
I would agree with you that my friend is going through a severe mid-life crisis. In his defense, he loved his ex-wife very, very much. He is in pain and is lashing out as violently as he can. It is unfortunate but very understandable and one of the reasons I wanted to take things slowly. I felt it would be hard for him to find his true love and start a serious relationship because these things are never easy when one has been truly hurt. Time and effort on both sides are needed for things to develop.
Yes, I do believe my friend bought the candy-coated bullshit written on the Internet about Thai brides. I think he bought it lock, stock and barrel. Having read your response to my e-mail, I think it is safe to assume that his 27 year old farm girl with her cell phone who could chat for hours in the Internet cafe via instant messaging in English was probably not the innocent victim he thought she was.
I do not mind losing my friend to a Thai woman if that is what is truly meant to be. Just as Thai women are beacons so too are American women to the right man. I have noticed that you have pointed out the virtues of Thai women to the various Caucasian women who have written you and I feel you are right. A woman who knows how to motivate a man will never be at a loss for a man no matter what her race.
I will say this about America. We are increasingly losing direction. As a society, we are becoming too egotistical, selfish and materialistic for our own good. Too much emphasis is placed on what you have as opposed to who you are as a person.
While the Internet has been one of the greatest barrier breaking inventions in history, I do think it has also been a curse for men and women, unhappy with their lives looking for a quick fix. I think people would be well advised to realize that any relationship must be cultivated. Anyone hoping to find the answer to love in a quick Internet romance needs to know nothing happens without a cost. The men who spend as much time as they can in Thailand seriously getting to know the culture and its people will naturally have the best chance of spending the rest of their lives with the woman of their dreams.
Thanks again David. Yes, your e-mail helped. And as I said��? required reading.
Take care
Western Girl ;)


Dear David
I have some more questions regarding my ex-boyfriend who went off to Thailand to find a mail order bride.

Just to recap in case you don't recall... This guy started corresponding with some Thai girls on the Internet while dating me in hopes of doing the Mail Order Bride thing. He went off to Bangkok for about 10 days in February... came back trying to keep things alive with me but I declined... and I basically ignored any further attempts he made to contact me until this last weekend.
This last Friday he came back into my life with all kinds of tales about how sorry he was, how special I was, how he was done with Thailand etc, etc. It turned out to be lies. He was just feeling lonely.
Anyway, we did talk about the "Thai thing." He said he met with one girl over in Bangkok. That she had not had sex - or so she said - for 11 years. But within 24 hours of first meeting they were going at it like a couple of rabbits.
He describes her as beautiful... which, knowing his taste, I'm positive she's a knockout... and spoiled. She grew up in Bangkok and has two apartments there. So she's no farm girl. But he says she's not too bright because she didn't know who the Pope was (Please keep in mind that is his wording not mine. Just because someone doesn't know who the Pope is doesn't, in my mind, make them stupid).
Anyway, long story short, he thinks she broke her 11 year celibacy because he's special. He's asked her to marry him and come live in the US with him. She's accepted.
He says she's an angel who hates Thai men and that's why she wants to move to the middle of the western US with him.
He says she told him that some of her friends are con artists who dupe farangs for money but not her. He has not met any of her friends or family.
Currently they are both awaiting the approval of that Fianc��? (90 days do or die) Visa the US government offers. He is under the impression he is special and that is why she is willing to do all this. Oh and of course he is paying for the Visa and travel. But she has not asked him for any money.

So here are my questions:
First, is it normal for him to not have met her family? I thought Thai women who were not con artists or in the sex trade got their family's approval before becoming engaged. He has not met any of her friends or family.

A Thai girl bent on snaring a farang man is usually desperately keen to introduce him to her family. So keen, in fact, that the issue will probably arise on the very first date - even when the encounter involves paid sex. Prostitutes have families too and their need for parental approval creates a strong desire show off any rich farang that they might have hooked.
A Western guy dating (or paying for) a Thai girl must constantly invent excuses to avoid visiting her family's mosquito-infested shack in the middle of nowhere. The heat, dirt and poor sanitation aren't half as uncomfortable as being surrounded by dozens of deliriously excited rice-farmers who have been led to believe that you're their financial saviour. Most men make the trip once and then vow never to do so again.
In this respect, your ex-boyfriend's mail order bride is rather untypical - which leads me to suspect that she actually a troubled girl from a middle-class background.
Her claim to own two apartments is so unusual that it might actually be true. I'd guess that they're mortgaged to the hilt, though, and possibly co-owned by former lovers.
Regardless of social class, a Thai girl's family should be at the centre of her universe. It's highly unusual that she should be unwilling to introduce them to her fiance but I can only speculate as to why she can't or won't.
Her family could be so rich and high-class that they might react badly to her marrying a Westerner - but, in her case, I don't believe that this is a plausible explanation. Only silly love-struck teenagers elope and she's certainly not one of those. Perhaps she went off the rails during early-adulthood and fell out with her parents.
Once a Thai girl rejects the values of her own culture, she often ends up living in a moral vacuum. "Good" girls gone bad can make the average prostitute look highly principled.
Alternatively, she might have no family problems at all and is simply milking cash out of your ex for fictional visas, air tickets, medical expenses etc. with no intention whatsoever of joining him in America. It's a very common and highly lucrative scam. If she's a perpetrator, there's no reason to involve her family.
Maybe this is how she funded the purchase of her two apartments.

[belano4ka]

Second, how realistic is it that she was celibate for 11 years given that he was having hard-core sex with her within 24 hours of first meeting her? I thought Thai women who were not in the sex trade or con artists were hard to seduce. This ties in with her friends being cons but not her. How realistic is that?
Her 11-year celibacy claim is utterly preposterous. She's a blatant liar and if you're looking for compelling evidence that she's totally dishonest, this is it.
I'm surprised she admitted that her friends are con-artists. We all know that best place to conceal a lie is between two truths but for her to let slip this particular truth was obviously an error of judgement. It does, however, explain why she didn't introduce your ex to them. She wouldn't want to risk having her prize stolen by another member of the pack - naive, marriage-minded farangs straight off the plane are every con-girl's preferred prey.
Third, what are odds of a Thai/American relationship working long term under these circumstances? i.e. just meeting for 10 days, then doing the 90 day visa thing with her leaving her country to live with him in the US. They must marry by the 90 days mark or she has to go home. Keep in mind, this guy is very controlling. It's his way or the highway. This guy has a temper which as of yet hasn't surfaced with her but it will with time I'm sure. I have heard the odds are bad for this kind of thing. What do you think?
These relationships usually fall apart very quickly. I can't offer you any statistics but, based on the experiences of people I know, I'm guessing that the first-year failure rate exceeds 90%. The odds are significantly better if the couple remain in Thailand.
Your ex's jealous and controlling nature probably won't faze this girl because this is how most Thai men behave and, as a result, Thai women have developed an extraordinary array of countermeasures - principal of which are charm and sneakiness. They also have a fearsome reputation for jealousy themselves.
It could be argued that these two people deserve each other - but this doesn't make it any more likely that their relationship will prosper.
Finally, won't she miss her country, family and friends? Won't this be hard for her? I'm just curious. We have all warned him and I know his family is concerned. Please let me know what you think.

Western Girl;)
If she really has fallen out with her family, she's probably not going to miss them and she almost certainly feels no genuine affection for her deceitful con-artist "friends" either (Paradoxically, these mixed-up girls often derive emotional as well as financial support from their hapless farang victims). However, she'll certainly miss her country and also the fast lifestyle that she currently takes for granted.

Thai people don't transplant well. Their unique and sometimes baffling culture governs every aspect of their lives and removing them from Thailand is truly like taking fish out of water. Most Thais only have a very sketchy understanding of the world outside their own borders. It's not that they're stupid - it's just that they're simply not interested. The same is often said of Americans but, when it comes to being parochial, the Thais are way out in front. I'm one to talk, though, because I can't remember the Pope's real name either.
If this girl genuinely wants to leave Thailand, it's probably because she's got herself into some kind of scrape. A lifestyle based on lies and deceit always carries this risk. However, it's equally likely that she's just milking your ex for cash.
His family are right to be concerned but any attempt to reason with him is a lost cause. His emotional state will currently be similar to that of a teen nerd losing his cherry to a prom queen. Wild dogs couldn't drag him off - and the 10% chance of success is enough to keep hope alive.
Regards
David




Dear David
I wanted to explain a bit further why I sent you my e-mail a few days ago. Up until I started dating this guy, I had no idea that there were Thai mail order brides. I had heard of Russian mail order brides. And those stories have ended very badly for the man. I knew about the Thai sex trade business but I had no idea that there was a Thai mail order bride service. Now, of course, I've opened my eyes and know this trend is growing all over the world. To a woman like me, this is extremely fascinating and astounding. I cannot imagine getting on the Internet and based on a picture or web-cam conversation think I've found my soul mate. I would think of that behavior as a lot like shooting in the dark and hoping you hit your target.
Now, I know why my ex boyfriend would go to such great lengths to get this Thai girl. He thinks he's found Shangri-La and he's a bit crazy as I think I mentioned in my earlier e-mails to you.
However, I have no idea why a beautiful, respectable Thai girl would do this mail order bride thing. We do not live in a booming metropolis which offers lots of diversity and interesting things to do. The nightlife here is not what she would expect I am sure. To compare it to Bangkok would be laughable. I've seen pictures of Thailand and know people who have gone there. They all say it's paradise. We do not live in paradise. We have semi harsh winters with awful inversions. It is a high mountain desert. She would be extremely isolated living with this guy where we live. He is not very social and does have mental issues for which he is medicated. His religious background is Baptist... so very Christian. He's relatively successful but by no means rich. He is control oriented. I am almost sure her life here in the states will not be what she expects. I am curious as to why she would leave her apartments and friends for a pipe dream. From what he says, it does seem that she does not have that bad of a life in Bangkok.
I know this guy's family and I know they are worried. Especially his mother, who worries he will get taken advantage of. She wanted him to sign a prenup with me for his protection and I am fairly well off. (Money would be the last motivation for me in deciding to get married). I can't imagine how worried she is now. All I know is that his behavior has caused a huge rift between him and his family. They no longer talk. He has a lot to lose. He has children from his previous marriage who live with him and a fairly successful business.
I'm wondering how straight-up this girl could be. Hence my questions in my e-mail to you the other day. (If you didn't get that e-mail, let me know and I'll send it again.) I guess from my questions, I see red flags based on what information he's shared with me and I'm wondering what your thoughts are. This guy has not been very careful at all. It seems to me, you would want to meet this girl's family and friends before jumping in head first into a commitment. Now I know it probably won't do any good. He's been told by anybody and everybody to be careful. He's been told the horror stories but he refuses to listen and believes this time will be different. I think it could be different but he should take it slow.
I think we would both agree that meeting a few Thai women online and then going to visit them for a week does not make this guy an expert on Thai women. It certainly does not set the stage for a lifetime commitment.
Anyway, perhaps you could answer my questions from the other day. Let me know your thoughts. And I could perhaps forward parts of your response to him in hopes of finally educating him.
Thank you,
Western Girl

[belano4ka]

Dear David


Ok so here's what I know about this girl which I did not mention in my e-mails. She's somewhere between 27 and 30 years of age. I think closer to 30. She may have a child. She might be divorced. But I am not sure on those last two items. He came back into my life saying he wanted to end it with her. But in the end could not bring himself to do it because he thinks he might break her heart. He describes her as very lovely and sweet. She would never hurt a flea kind of thing. The sweet-natured is the big deal to him. I almost get the feeling from talking to him that she is so sweet that she seems naive and needy like a child... Does this come into play with these con girl's temperament?
Yes. Successful con-girls are all lovely and sweet and needy like a child. They are not, however, naive - but their farang victims obviously have to be. Someone's heart will get broken but it's definitely not going to be hers. I thought you would react to the celibacy that way. I was pretty sure you and I were on the same page with that topic. I am then assuming that had she been truthful she would have been more careful and sex would have occurred much later in the relationship after making him jump through some hoops, correct?
Correct. However it's also true that some respectable Thai girls will sleep with an eligible farang on the first date - but only if the guy is an exceptionally good catch and only if she's 100% certain that no one will find out.
Unfortunately for your ex, Internet shoppers and 10-day tourists never get to meet this kind of girl. He is adamant she is not a bar girl. But she could be a con artist and not necessarily a bar girl, correct?
It depends on what you mean by "bar girl". It's quite possible that she's never worked behind a bar but Bangkok is home to thousands of sweet, demure girls who make a living out of fishing for foreign men - both on the Internet and in local nightclubs.
Some might even have a daytime job but most don't have the time. Duping several foreign lovers simultaneously is a fulltime occupation in itself - not to mention all the conventional tricks that she's turning on the side with the guys who turn out not to be so gullible.
Girls playing the lonely-hearts scam are, by definition, prostitutes but their numerous farang lovers will often perform hair-splitting intellectual summersaults to remain in denial. In my opinion, if a girl solicits like a prostitute, drops her knickers like a prostitute and asks for money like a prostitute��? then she's a prostitute.
Every con-girl is a prostitute but it has to be said that not every prostitute is a con-girl. In the girl's defense, I just asked my ex if he had met her parents. He said no. He might have declined to meet her parents when she pressed. I have no idea. She could have wanted him to meet them. So it might be him. I thought it was weird because he does want to SERIOUSLY marry her and I would think since she is from Bangkok supposedly it would be easy to meet her family. My question actually was wouldn't it be advisable for him to meet her folks to get a better idea of her background?
It's not just advisable - it's essential. However, the love-sick victims of this scam often become willing accomplices to it and the last thing they want is to discover any evidence of wrongdoing. It's also weird because he describes her as poor but also spoiled. And with those apartments��? Could her apartments belong to her family? I'm baffled with that.
Poor but spoiled is the classic demeanour of a Thai prostitute. They come across this way because their job involves constantly asking for expensive things in a sweet and childish manner.
I can't shed any further light on the apartment mystery but I'm pretty sure that there must be a few farang dollars invested in them. If she's been playing this game for the last 10 years, she must have won the occasional jackpot.
As I mentioned before, these apartments are probably mortgaged to the hilt. Girls like this often adopt a very fast lifestyle and their money is usually frittered away on gambling, clubbing, alcohol, drugs, designer clothes and huge phone bills. Despite an income that might exceed that of a High Court Judge, they usually have nothing to show for their efforts besides a few gold trinkets and a large wardrobe. How I know he is paying for the visa: When he was trying to get me back, he wanted me to reimburse him for $1,500 (isn't that grand) he had paid a lawyer to get her a visa. (I said no...lol) If he's paying a lawyer, how does this scam work? How does she get money from him with regard to that? Also on a plane ticket if he actually buys her a ticket?
The lawyer is probably just as dubious as the girl and I reckon that she must be furious that "her" money was paid directly into his pocket.
His scam - if you can call it that - is merely to charge a large fee for doing very little. The process of applying for a visa is actually quite straightforward and most people don't bother with a lawyer. The difficult part is to fabricate a huge pack of lies that must include an employment history plausible enough to disguise the fact that she's been a prostitute all her working life. She must also be clever enough not to get tripped up by the leading questions she'll be asked at interview. Being middle-class greatly increases her chances of success.
The basic con-girl scam is laughably simple. The obstacles that prevent our couple from being together can only be solved by him sending her cash - for a statutory medical examination, for example, or to have a minor offence expunged from her police record - but, sadly, more obstacles will always arise and, in the meantime, she doesn't have enough money to pay her living expenses or to deal with the many imaginative misfortunes which have befallen her. As her knight in shining armour, he can hardly refuse to help - and she probably has a small regiment of others on the go too.
The only clue that this girl might actually be willing to join your ex in America is her age. In Thailand, prostitutes pushing 30 are nearing the end of their working lives. The competition from younger girls is just too intense and they will often attempt to secure a farang husband before they finally hit the wall. In fact, given that they're often unemployable, most don't really have any other option. How I found out about the con friends: He and I were talking and he said "She has friends who scam white guys, but not her. They get men to send them money all the time." I then asked "Have you sent her money?" He said No. But given how dishonest this guy is that could be a lie.
Of course he's been sending her money but it will always be earmarked for some noble cause and this, in his mind at least, doesn't equate to paying for her services. Is it absolutely a red flag that she would even infer that she knows of con artists?
Mixing with con-artist prostitutes is definitely a red flag. "Good" girls don't. Despite their relative wealth, these pariahs of polite Thai society can only socialise with their own kind. What about this reasoning that Thai men are assholes? Is this really a reason why Thai girls seek out Farangs? It seems to me from reading some of the things on your site that these girls seem to have no problem with Thai guys and often have a Thai boyfriend on the side.
Bar girls chant "Thai man no good" like a mantra but the truth is that eligible Thai men aren't interested in forming relationships with prostitutes. They expect their wives to be young, virginal and uncomplicated and they regard prostitutes as being for recreational use only. They also can't be fooled by the sickly bullshit that so often works on farangs.
If she wants a Thai partner, the average prostitute will have to settle for a low-life - the kind of guy who will get her pregnant and then do a runner - but this is precisely why so many of them ended up selling their bodies in the first place and, not surprisingly, hooking up with a rich farang is often seen as a better option.
The girls who keep a feckless Thai boyfriend on the side tend to be those right at the bottom of the bar girl food chain. The sophisticated, English-speaking freelancers of Bangkok set their sights much higher and, when they meet a farang customer who turns out to be special, they will often quit the night-scene to move in with him.
These couplings are often genuine love affairs but the girl won't throw away her address book and she certainly won't ditch the love-sick farang buffaloes sending her money each month.

[belano4ka]

If they talk everyday via webcam, does this mean she is seriously interested? She gets up at 5:00 a.m. to talk to him everyday because as he puts it, it's the only time she can talk.

She's seriously interested, alright - but only in what she can scam from him.
I don't believe that she's an early riser. Five in the morning is probably her bedtime. Thai prostitutes usually spend the early hours of the morning having sex with inebriated tourists in hotel rooms and, even if our girl doesn't score a customer, she still won't be able to sleep. She'll fill the time by phoning her friends - who are often perfectly happy to take calls during sex (I'm not joking).
If this is the only time she can talk, then she's definitely leading a double life. If a guy living abroad is serious about keeping his Thai girlfriend on the straight and narrow, then he must call her frequently on a landline (not a mobile) at times of HIS choosing - times that are inconvenient for a working prostitute. She'll continue to be unfaithful, of course, but not with the same impunity as before.
Your ex has allowed his con-girl to seize the initiative (Whatever happened to "his way or the highway?"). He must fear that cramping her style will dampen her enthusiasm for keeping this little charade going - and he's probably right.

Also, how important is his behavior around her. He was drunk the whole time he was over there. Would a respectable Thai girl have an issue with this? It seems that many Thai girls don't drink or smoke, right?

Many respectable girls don't drink or smoke but, as Western values slowly replace Thai traditions, this is beginning to change.
Thai men have always enjoyed a drink and Thailand scores exceptionally high marks in the world rankings of alcohol consumption. Lunchtime drinking is quite common and public holidays give ordinary Thai families the opportunity to litter the country's few remaining beauty-spots with broken whiskey bottles. Heavy drinking is perfectly acceptable here - so long as it doesn't descend into alcoholism - and a girl rejecting drinkers from her dance-card might end up single.
Beer-soaked farang holidaymakers are unlikely to find themselves fending off many respectable young Thai beauties, however - but they're free to take their pick of the naughty ones. You have to feel sorry for a guy who can't tell the difference.

Anyway, these are some of the questions which occurred to me while reading your e-mail. Sorry I know I'm asking a lot but hopefully you won't mind answering a few others... Thanks so much for your response. It explains a lot. And I really appreciate the time and effort.
Take care
Western Girl


Wow David
I think it is safe to say that you absolutely think this girl is no good. I basically just parroted exactly what he blabbered about to you. Obviously, what I parroted came up flaming red flags. I have to say while reading your e-mail my jaw dropped and probably didn't close until well after finishing. I believe I said in my first e-mail to you that this guy deserved a hard kick in the "arse" and believe me he does but after reading your recent mail, I feel a bit sorry for him.
Nevertheless, before I "cut and paste" and send him your comments, I want to be sure I've covered all possible bases and been, where possible, a "devils advocate".
Ok so first off, I think what happened here is that he did his research and discovered that "farm girls" were probably girls in the sex trade. So he very carefully selected a girl who was from Bangkok and if she is the same girl he told me about in February and I think she is. She is an accountant. At least her ad on the Internet said as much. (Now me being curious, I looked on the site where he was getting his girls, Thai Love Links, and noticed very interestingly that there are a surprising number of accountants. It seems to be the trade of choice.). Anyway, I think he thinks he has avoided the con trap by picking a career girl who is from Bangkok. However, I know that he rapidly - we are talking in a few days - got his ticket and flew there. And from listening to him talk last weekend, it would seem he and his gal spent not only nights but also the better part of the days together. Could she get time off from a real job with such short notice?

The vast majority of Thai workers have no annual-leave entitlement - only public holidays. A girl who claims to be working but then turns out to be "Miss Available" is almost certainly a con-artist.
In Thailand, the term "accountant" is used very indiscriminately and an office dogsbody who sometimes processes a few invoices could quite truthfully describe herself as one. The title doesn't necessarily confer any professional status but it might impress foreign men who aren't aware of its ambiguity.
It's quite likely that your ex's girl might once have shuffled a few papers around in an office. Young girls straight out of full-time education don't turn into prostitutes and con-artists overnight. Disenchantment with the shockingly low wages (perhaps US$50 a week for a bookkeeper in Bangkok) and poor prospects needs to set-in first. People sometimes forget that Thailand is a developing nation. Glittering careers are very hard to come by - even for graduates.
The vast majority of ordinary Thai people work long hours in honest employment but their only reward is a mere subsistence income. If you can't inherit it or marry into it, wealth can only be acquired by building up a successful business or by becoming a senior - and corrupt - public official. For pretty girls with expensive tastes, conning lonely farang men out of their life savings is the best business opportunity available.
Incidentally, some "farm girls" scrub up quite well and, to farang eyes at least, could pass for sophisticated urban princesses.

Second, keeping in mind that while I have traveled, I've never been to the Orient and so I know very little of the culture there. Why is it so unlikely that this apartment cannot be hers? Is it uncommon for women to own property in Thailand? Could it be her family's and they let her live there thus explaining her being spoiled? Could the apartment be her own by way of a divorce? Or could she have a real job and have paid for it honestly through hard work? After all in the US, these would all be highly likely scenarios. Also my ex mentioned these apartments cannot be sold, why not? I guess Real Estate cannot be sold in general? And he mentioned foreigners cannot buy Real Estate in Thailand as well. Is that true?

Thai real estate can be bought and sold quite easily. However, foreigners aren't permitted to buy houses or land - only condos. Naturally, there are ways around these restrictions - such as signing a lease or setting up a holding company - but some men prefer to buy a property in the sole name of their Thai partner - a decision that they'll probably come to regret.
Thai women have the same legal rights as Thai men and it's perfectly normal for them to own property. Our girl could certainly have acquired these apartments through her family but it's far more likely that she was installed in them by lovers. Rich Thai men are typically very generous to their mistresses and naive farang men are easily manipulated into making unwise "investment" decisions.
It's quite possible that the apartments might form part of a divorce settlement but, of course, we don't know. The only thing that I'm certain of is that she didn't pay for them herself by doing an honest job. Fifty bucks a week doesn't buy this kind of lifestyle.
As to why she can't sell them, I'd hazard a guess that her mother cares for her child in one apartment and she keeps her stuff in the other - while actually living at a farang boyfriend's place or in the hotel rooms of customers and potential victims.
She's unlikely to have invited your ex to visit her at home. This would risk giving away clues about her true situation. Con-girls prefer to groom their victims in anonymous hotel rooms.

[belano4ka]

Why is it so unlikely that one would meet a respectable Thai girl on the Internet through a dating site?

I think that it might be possible to make contact with a respectable but broke Thai divorcee through a dating site but it has to be said she'll probably be motivated more by the desire for a better life rather than by any notion of romance. If she's willing to move abroad, this implies desperation - unless, of course, she's really a prostitute seeking out big money or a con-girl working the lonely-hearts scam.

Some of the women profiled on Thai Love Links are clearly not part of the farang night-scene - they're not attractive enough and they don't speak English - but I'm sure that most men will quickly skip over the Buri Ram B-team in favour of the gorgeous Bangkok con-girls with webcams.

Also, if, lets say, she is an accountant working lets say 9 to 5, is it possible she gets up before work and trots down to the local Internet cafe to talk to him before she has to go to work? When I did the time conversion it is more like 6:00 a.m. her time that they talk. They never talk on the phone only web cam and that is probably because my ex is cheap and doesn't like to spend money. Anyway, let me know your thoughts on this. And thank you very much.

Western Girl

Anything's possible but this quaint scenario isn't very convincing and it certainly doesn't explain why she can't take calls in the evening.

Most of Thailand's Internet cafes are full of teenagers playing shoot-em-up games. In the nightlife districts, however, a select few cater almost exclusively to provocatively-dressed con-girls scamming foreign victims. If she's using a webcam, a quick look at what's going on in the background might reveal the truth.

Your love-sick ex has made no serious attempt to verify this girl's dubious claims. Blind faith and rising hormones have reduced him to a state of temporary insanity. If you forward my advice to him, I can guarantee that it will make no difference whatsoever.

I can't tell you what the outcome will be but I think it's more likely that she's grooming a Western Union buffalo rather than seeking out new opportunities in the US.

The Thais call these men buffaloes because of their stupidity, their hard-working nature and their willingness to be led around by the nose by a rice farmer's daughter. Like African tribesmen, Thai con-girls measure their wealth by the number of buffaloes they own.

Regards
David

Hi David,

Thank you for your patience in answering all my questions. I really appreciate it. I forwarded him most of your comments and suggestions.

Hopefully, he can read this objectively with an open mind. As I said before he has a lot to lose. He has kids who are counting on him and have been through enough with his divorce.

I think I see your point and I agree with you. While "anything" is possible, it is highly unlikely that this guy happened to find on the Internet the equivalent of the "Thai jackpot":

"A stunningly gorgeous career woman who during her 20's sequestered herself becoming celibate, working at her career, sitting home nights while some of her friends were out having fun and making an easy living off men night after night. Then finally after years of being alone and slaving away as an accountant, she gets up the gumption and posts an ad on the Internet only to connect with our guy and after just weeks of communication decides to risk meeting him, a stranger from another country and then upon meeting him decides that he is the one she has been waiting for all these years and sheds her born again virginity becoming a wild sexpot within days of meeting him. And finally decides without conviction that he is worth leaving her country, her only security (her accountant job) and her homes."

Kind of sounds like a romance novel doesn't it?... SCARY. Yes, I agree with you. Highly unlikely. I think you are right. She is probably no good.

I will let you know what my ex says...

Thanks again, take care.
Western Girl

Hi David,

I just thought I would let you know that you were 110% correct on my ex's reaction to your information. Wild dogs couldn't drag him away.

First off, after just those 10 days in Bangkok... well actually 8 if you take into account fly time... he's become an expert on Thailand and Thai society. He's quite cocky about the whole thing. He wants to retire there in 10 years and acts like he knows everything about Thailand. Remember this was his first trip out of the US... ever.

His reaction to what you had to say and those two links I referred him to was that you were talking about "bar" girls not regular girls in Thailand. He said his girl is not a bar girl and was adamant that you were just talking about bar girls on your site. He says there are 1000's of sites just like yours on the Internet all saying the same thing. He's heard all the stories and knows what to look for. He knows the odds are bad but he also thinks he's a good judge of character and will not get screwed over. He believes his girl is different. He believes everything she has told him and thinks she will take good care of him. He is adamant that he is special to her and that is why she is leaving her job and country for him. She has told him she will live anywhere in the world so long as it is with him. He has it all worked out. Once she is in the US with him, she will get a job and they will live happily ever after.

His point was that she is just too lovely (from his description she sounds quite beautiful) and sweet to be a con girl. And her heart has been broken which is why she was celibate for 11 years. She has finally trusted a guy again and he's not going to break her heart... By the way, what's with this "breaking heart" syndrome that Thai girls seem to have? So many of them seem to cry out "don't break my heart," yet it seems the opposite happens which is ironic to say the least.

Anyway, when confronted with the point that respectable Thai girls are hard to seduce (one of your articles mentioned it should be like raising the Titanic.), he said "not so" and that Thai society is based on sex or revolves around sex. (You have to wonder about what sort of experiences he had in Bangkok which caused him to make that generalization.) He said that it's a myth that respectable Thai girls are hard to get into bed and that actually it is quite easy... I guess his point is that they are all nymphomaniacs... He said, "he's the white god over there" and can have his pick of 1,000's of women. He has obviously gotten a huge ego over this experience.

He says Thai men are assholes and that is why Thai women seek out farangs.

He hand picked this girl out of 1,000's of women on the Internet and is positive she is not a con artist. He thinks he is smart enough to see a con coming if that was the case.

His family thinks he has lost it. They are very upset about this and the effect this will have on his kids. I think he should take it slowly. What's wrong with visiting her a couple more times over the course of a year and getting to know her and her family rather than have her move into his house with his kids for 90 days after just 8 days together? His actions seem a bit extreme and after your information, crazy and stupid. She is still, for all intents and purposes, a stranger. I think we can all agree that 8 days together in a vacation atmosphere does not make two people life mates.

The biggest red flag for me was that he described her as spoiled. To me this is very telling and implies a lot about a person's personality. For instance, I would not describe a born again virgin working full time with a resume which includes a university education as spoiled but rather as serious especially if she is caring for an 11 year old child. She certainly wouldn't have time for games. If she were really the girl he describes, I suspect the last thing she would have time for is entertaining a farang on holiday who for all she knows is looking for a good time. But he refuses to listen to reason as you so keenly pointed out.

Who knows if this will have any positive effect on him. He seems unwilling to listen to other people's point of view.

Western Girl

Your ex is clearly in no mood to allow commonsense to get in the way of his erection. His daft opinions about respectable Thai women amount to little more than a gullible middle-aged man's masturbatory fantasy. Worse still, his head appears to have swollen up to the size of a planet.

I've dealt with all of his misconceptions already so I'm not going to repeat myself.

I'm fairly certain that his current relationship will fail but he appears to have been bitten by the Thailand bug and the condition follows a predictable course.

The love-sick fool stage is usually followed by an "Elvis period" which can last upwards of two years. This second adolescence is often reported to be considerably more enjoyable than the first one but the novelty of bedding an endless succession of beautiful young prostitutes in every imaginable combination eventually wears off and most guys end up enjoying a near-faithful relationship with a delightful long-term Thai girlfriend who may or may not have a bit of a history herself.

I'm guessing that your ex has already been measured up for his rhinestone jumpsuit but his career in the States and his child-rearing responsibilities may prevent him from slipping it on as often as he might like.

Regards
David

[Andylad]

The horror stories i have from Thailand! just a couple of quick ones.

6 years ago i was out in Thailand with a mate of mine, he suggested that we go to Pattaya for a w/end because a friend of his was coming over for the first time & needed to be ''shown the ropes''
Mark arrived & seemed a nice guy, very wealthy, he made his money in the 80s when all the Brits were leaving & going to Spain, he did removals!
Anyone who has been to Pattaya will know what a crazy place it is, wall to wall bars & clubs, young half naked girls everywhere & all for sale, Mark saw this on his first night out & just went f/kin crazy! every bar has a bell hanging up in it, if you ring the bell you have to buy EVERYONE in the bar a drink, there might only be half a dozen customers in there , but there can be up to 30 girls working there! he did this in every bar we went in, that night alone he spent £2,800.00, which takes some spending in Thailand, that would last me 3 weeks, even if i went out every night! that same night he took 2 girls & 1 lady boy back to his hotel, within 4 day's he was known all over Pattaya as JACKPOT, anyway the story goes, we were out for dinner one night & he told us he had a big decision to make, some company had made him an offer on his business of £5.3 million pounds, we knew this to be true because we saw a newspaper article about it, 2 days later he went home to do the deal, a week later he was back in Thai, he said he was staying there indefinitely, 4 years later he is bankrupt! he is paying maintenance for 7 kids, no way are they his, they are full Thai, but he wont listen, he bought 4 pairs of false boobs, he paid numerous dental bills for girls, 3 cars, in fact any hooker he went with that gave him a sob story he gave her what she wanted, the final straw came, he bought a nice big house & 2 bars, he decided he was settling down with the girl he was with at the time & going to run the bars between them, every 30 days if you live there you need to renew your visa, so you get on a bus, go to Vietnam for a day, & when you come back over the border they stamp your visa & you are ok for another 30 days, on arriving home after one of these trips he saw several police cars on his drive, his girlfriend , her parents & Brothers & a solicitor, after all the screaming & tears from his wife he was arrested & locked up, it was later explained to him that his g/f had accused him of rape & assault,.
Regarding the rape charge, he showed us photos of his g/f that her solicitor sent him, she had bruises all over body, a broken wrist & her ladies bits had been seriously abused, & his semen found on her body & inside her.
He was given 3 choices, pay 10,000,000,000.00 Baht nearly £200,000.00 Compensation. spend 8 years in prison or leave Thailand & never come back, so he's back in the UK, no job, no money & no life, while his ex g/f & her family are living in his big house & running his bars, A FOOL & HIS MONEY ARE EASILY PARTED
this is a typical Thailand story, this is a larger scale than most, but i would never trust a Thai woman, it's not one or two that are corrupt, it is every single Thai woman out there, even my friends who made the mistake of marrying a Thai, they all say, never marry one & never ever trust one.

I was going to post another story, but it's late & my tongue is hurting with all this typing :becky: so I'll do it another day!

Good night all, sweet dreams
:)