Hugo Chavez arrives in Russia to say hello from Fidel Castro and spend 30 billion dol

[Neilikka]

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who arrived in Russia with a short visit upon the invitation from Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, had his first meeting scheduled with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin. Chavez said hello to Putin from Fidel Castro.
Putin said during the meeting with Chavez that Russia and Venezuela had new horizons of economic cooperation to explore. In particular, Moscow is ready to consider an opportunity of cooperation with Venezuela in the peaceful use of nuclear power.
Speaking about the expansion of bilateral ties, Putin emphasized the launch of Gazprom’s first drilling station in the Gulf of Venezuela, which is slated to take place at the end of October. “The cooperation between Russian companies and the Venezuelan state oil company has very good perspectives not only in Venezuela, but in third world countries too,” Putin said.
“We have new opportunities opening in the economic field: energy, high technologies, machine-building and petrochemistry. We are ready to consider the question of the joint usage of nuclear power in peaceful purposes,” Putin said.
As for the cooperation in the defense industry, Putin said that Russia was determined to realize the agreements on the naval cooperation too. A group of Russian warships is currently traveling to the Atlantic Ocean, Putin reminded.
Hugo Chavez expressed his gratitude to Putin for the warm welcome in Moscow and said hello to the Russian prime minister from Cuban leader Fidel Castro. “When I was landing in Moscow I was writing a letter to my friend Fidel, and he asked me to say hello to you, and so did his brother, of course,” Chavez said.
“Thank you, dear friend, for inviting me to Moscow,” Chavez told Putin in the Kremlin. Chavez also thanked Putin jokingly for making the visit happening before severe Russian winter weather.
Putin pointed out in his conversation with the Venezuelan leader that Latin America was becoming a conspicuous link in the establishment of the multipolar world.
Russia will give Venezuela a billion-dollar credit to implement the military and technical cooperation program. Moscow and Caracas have already signed a number of contracts within the scope of the program. The total amount of the signed contracts is evaluated at $4.4 billion, Interfax reports with reference to a source in the Kremlin.
The source added that the two countries were running the military cooperation on the base of the intergovernmental agreement and in strict compliance with international obligations and legal norms.
A source from the Russian defense complex said that Russia had already delivered 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles (AK-103, a new modification) to Venezuela within the framework of previously signed contracts. There will also be two plants opened in Venezuela soon to assemble the rifles and produce ammunition to them. The two countries also work on the contract to deliver 24 Su-30MK2 fighter jets to Venezuela and about 50 Mil helicopters.
Venezuela plans to purchase 20 Tor-M1 missile complexes from Russia and three diesel-electric submarines. The contracts will total one billion US dollars.
Venezuela also plans to purchase six non-nuclear submarines and several dozens of warships of different classes from Russia.
Russian experts offer Venezuela 14310 Mirage patrol cutters, 12061E Murena-E air cushion amphibious assault landing crafts and mobile missile complexes capable of hitting sea-based targets at the range of up to 130 kilometers.
The source added that Caracas plans to spend over $30 billion on military hardware and weapons before 2012 in accordance with the program to rearm the Venezuelan army.

Pravda.ru :Connie-JC_window:

[Lucker]

I just love Mister Chavez .
He takes no shite from the US and they simply cannot handle him .
He may be one of the biggest idiots in the world but there is a bigger one and that is called the US of A
They have driven him to Russia .
Well done clever America . Vey smart .
Putin can and will spit him out as and when matters suit , but , for the moment , they will be big pals .
And very big Oil producers !!

[brown-raider]

peacock come on you know he drove himself .. he has always been a maniac... he has closed t.v stations ect.. hey that sounds familiar!..:lol:

[alpine-frolic]

i am sure they won't forget to be silent durint at least one minute in remembering of Che Guevarra, that makes me very happy.:love::love:

[brown-raider]

I wonder if having friends that take away the rights of their people, is something to be proud of...:yo:

[alpine-frolic]

I wonder if having friends that take away the rights of their people, is something to be proud of...:yo:
You are not more proud?

[brown-raider]

el che' is exactly where he belongs.. pushing tulips!..:lol: y el Che' era maricon tambien:lol:I wonder if having friends that take away the rights of their people, is something to be proud of...:yo:

[Lucker]

Frank
Sometimes I think America needs reminding that there are different ways to skin a cat .
Pushing someone into a corner and making threats just does not work any more .
Even women fight back these days !!!!! ROFL

[brown-raider]

don't understand your question ragtop!!You are not more proud?

[brown-raider]

Frank
Sometimes I think America needs reminding that there are different ways to skin a cat .
Pushing someone into a corner and making threats just does not work any more .
Even women fight back these days !!!!! ROFL
but this guy has always been a quack! he grew up Idolizing Castro. che' ect.. he was a mind of mush that mutated to a nut... from watching several of the spanish stations his people are sorry they elected him the majority anyways... he's a damn nut

[alpine-frolic]

el che' is exactly where he belongs.. pushing tulips!..:lol: y el Che' era maricon tambien:lol:
We will all go pushing tulips. But some will not be forgotten...

[Lucker]

And that's why you don't piss around with him .
In the old days you bumped him off ( pretty sensible ) because no one could spell Venezuela , let alone knew where it was .
Now it is public . So use de brains Franky Boy .

[brown-raider]

We will all go pushing tulips. But some will not be forgotten...of course not.. neither will Hitler or Stalin...

[brown-raider]

And that's why you don't piss around with him .
In the old days you bumped him off ( pretty sensible ) because no one could spell Venezuela , let alone knew where it was .
Now it is public . So use de brains Franky Boy .he sure talks alot of bull shitt... don't know how much spanish you understand, but he is a classic... don't know if you know who Maria Conchita Allonzo is, but she is a hollywood actress and former Miss Venezuela... Well she's kicking up alot of dust she hates Chavez. Alonzo goes back and for to Venezuela and I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up commiting suicide... maybe a little something else Chavez has learned along the way from his friends..(not mentioning any names of course... I also heard he is banning alcohol and junk food, now that might get him killed...:lol:

[zoroooo]

And that's why you don't piss around with him .
In the old days you bumped him off ( pretty sensible ) because no one could spell Venezuela , let alone knew where it was .
Now it is public . So use de brains Franky Boy .

should I say it or shouldnt I.. about franky and brains..naaaaaahhhh....he cool since 3 days..
No need to reactivate him..
But it took keenan 12 h to be reactivated ..He usse duracel batteries


zorozoro

[saprosky]

he sure talks alot of bull shitt... don't know how much spanish you understand, but he is a classic... don't know if you know who Maria Conchita Allonzo is, but she is a hollywood actress and former Miss Venezuela... Well she's kicking up alot of dust she hates Chavez. Alonzo goes back and for to Venezuela and I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up commiting suicide... maybe a little something else Chavez has learned along the way from his friends..(not mentioning any names of course... I also heard he is banning alcohol and junk food, now that might get him killed...:lol:

Hugo Chaves is the best TV showman in Venezuela (clown?) He arrived to be president talking about equality between rich and poor (very old tale) and at end he (and friends) gets the total control of the government even modifying Constitution favorable to him. (I remember some other that do the same :hmm:)

He also would like to change Southaamerica. Everybody with his surrealistic ideas. Bolivia did it and now have many problems with separatist rich regions that don't want to know about equality.

After Bolivia failure, Chavez is alone in Southamerica. Spain after "Why don't you shut up?" (¿Porqué no te callas?) incident change relationships with Venezuela. Are Ok but not the same than before incident.

Nobody wants to know about Chavez. Only his "friend" Fidel (Is he still alive?) is with him (basically for oil), so what to do now ? Simple. Go to Russia. Is the only country that will agree with him and will sell goods and guns.

Next show, militar maneuvers in the Caribean with guest star Russia. A big show just for "the Devil" USA and his "ignorant" president Bush.

Just for fun.

As Brown said, listen Chavez in spanish is very funny (nobody take him seriously). Translation or subtitles are not the same than original in spanish but here another Chavez Show:

6xdHdz0ZUVM

[zoroooo]

I liked it when the king of spain asked him to shut up..

[Sveta's Hero]

Chavez might be a clown, but he has the potential to become a very dangerous clown with the help of Russian weaponry. Imagine if this guy gets ahold of nukes.

[saprosky]

If you listen his harangue you will see is a maniac.

Bush "The Devil" and countries near USA are "The Devil" too. He thinks everybody will attack Venezuela.

Also he thinks all the world need Venezuela for his oil. "The Big Oil Producer of The World".

When you talk with some venezuelan living in Spain, they explain how Cahvez try to control all: oil, media, banks, big companies, ... He needs this control to manipulate people and get profit for himself and friends.

[Sveta's Hero]

The only reason countries such as Russia like him is because he plans to spend billions of dollars buying their old, crappy weapons.

[saprosky]

The only reason countries such as Russia like him is because he plans to spend billions of dollars buying their old, crappy weapons.

Russia go to Caribbean to scare USA and Venezuela buys some ships and planes to Russia. Also russian boys can have a sunny holidays. All is part of the show.

I can imagine Chavez harengue when russian navy will arrive to Venezuela.

"Yanquis, venir ahora si teneis ****** a invadir Venezuela. Comprobareis nuestras armas gracias al camarada Vladimiro. Yankis ahora vereis nuestra fuerza ......"

or in english soft translation:

"Yankees, come here now and invade Venezuela. You will check our russian guns. Thanks tovarich Vladimir.......Now these yankees will see our power ....."


Just for fun (till arrive to total madness)

[RiverRock]

Saddam Hussein says hello to Hugo Chavez and would like to give him a book.



http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4729/hidinginholesoz9.jpg

[beezneesman]

Saddam Hussein says hello to Hugo Chavez and would like to give him a book.



http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4729/hidinginholesoz9.jpg


But is Chavez really a dictator? If he is he is in no way comparable to Saddam Hussein (and BTW Saddam's foray into genocide against the Kurds was while he was an ally of the USA).

Somehow I don't think the USA is in any position to be doing anything much to or about Chavez so why waste time blowing off hot air about it online.

[Sveta's Hero]

Somehow I don't think the USA is in any position to be doing anything much to or about Chavez so why waste time blowing off hot air about it online.

Hmmm, don't discuss current events in a political section of a forum? Seems strange coming from you, beez. We are here to waste time talking about what's happening in the world, right?

[saprosky]

As I said before, Chavez control media, companies, banks, oil, .... His friends help him. He modified the constitution to keep it and give him more power in more time. Oposition is practically null, TV and radio station closed. And he won last elections without oposition.

Is he a dictator ?

[RiverRock]

beezneesman: Somehow I don't think the USA is in any position to be doing anything much to or about Chavez so why waste time blowing off hot air about it online.


It is a joke. There is someone that needs to blow hot air out of their head but it's not me.

[Lonewolf74]

Hugo Chaves is the best TV showman in Venezuela (clown?) He arrived to be president talking about equality between rich and poor (very old tale) and at end he (and friends) gets the total control of the government even modifying Constitution favorable to him. (I remember some other that do the same :hmm:)

He also would like to change Southaamerica. Everybody with his surrealistic ideas. Bolivia did it and now have many problems with separatist rich regions that don't want to know about equality.

After Bolivia failure, Chavez is alone in Southamerica. Spain after "Why don't you shut up?" (¿Porqué no te callas?) incident change relationships with Venezuela. Are Ok but not the same than before incident.

Nobody wants to know about Chavez. Only his "friend" Fidel (Is he still alive?) is with him (basically for oil), so what to do now ? Simple. Go to Russia. Is the only country that will agree with him and will sell goods and guns.

Next show, militar maneuvers in the Caribean with guest star Russia. A big show just for "the Devil" USA and his "ignorant" president Bush.

Just for fun.

As Brown said, listen Chavez in spanish is very funny (nobody take him seriously). Translation or subtitles are not the same than original in spanish but here another Chavez Show:

6xdHdz0ZUVM

Pajarito...ROFL!!! :lol::lol::lol:

[beezneesman]

It is a joke. There is someone that needs to blow hot air out of their head but it's not me.

So are you going for regime change in Venezuela then? I don't think so - especially not now the money's run out.

[alpine-frolic]

As I said before, Chavez control media, companies, banks, oil, .... His friends help him.

Is he a dictator ?

Zarkossi and Berlusconi do the same in their own countries ...The main difference with Chavez, they don't like too much more social justice.

[kentuckydan]

I just love Mister Chavez .
He takes no shite from the US and they simply cannot handle him .
He may be one of the biggest idiots in the world but there is a bigger one and that is called the US of A
They have driven him to Russia .
Well done clever America . Vey smart .
Putin can and will spit him out as and when matters suit , but , for the moment , they will be big pals .
And very big Oil producers !!


Big Oil producers for a while maybe. Russia production is dropping and Chavez has just about run his country's Oil Industry into the ground.

[Lucker]

Ken Smutty ,
How on earth do you run an oil industry into the ground ?

[kentuckydan]

Ken Smutty ,
How on earth do you run an oil industry into the ground ?

You take it over nationlise it, I think it's callee and then let friends and cronys
run it. The Amount of Oil coming out of the ground decreases.

[Lucker]

There are times when you are a lovable old fart , Mister Smutty .

You run an Oil industry OUT OF the earth .
It seemed slick !! when I wrote it

[beezneesman]

Just wondering whether any of the American contributors, who are getting so exercised at the moment about Chavez being a 'dictator', were also so interested in democracy in Venezuela when right wing dictators ran the country for the benefit of a few oligarchs?

[kentuckydan]

There are times when you are a lovable old fart , Mister Smutty .

You run an Oil industry OUT OF the earth .
It seemed slick !! when I wrote it

Well when you let your equipement and work force degrade not as much comes

OUT OF The earth

[Lucker]

Alternatively , you might have said , " Ooops . Missed that . What a Cracker !! "
Hey, ho .

[kentuckydan]

Just wondering whether any of the American contributors, who are getting so exercised at the moment about Chavez being a 'dictator', were also so interested in democracy in Venezuela when right wing dictators ran the country for the benefit of a few oligarchs?

Oh I figure about the same as the number of Europeans concerned these days about the Human Rights record of the Castro Oligarchy, who over the course of time probably make most of those right wing dictators look like boy scouts,

[beezneesman]

Oh I figure about the same as the number of Europeans concerned these days about the Human Rights record of the Castro Oligarchy, who over the course of time probably make most of those right wing dictators look like boy scouts,

Good to see my suspicions confirmed.

I am intrigued as to why you think Castro is somehow qualitatively worse than e.g. Pinochet, the former Argentinian junta, Somoza, Trujillo, Batista and other bloodstained right winger dictators in Latin America who were Americas 'bastards'

[kentuckydan]

Good to see my suspicions confirmed.

I am intrigued as to why you think Castro is somehow qualitatively worse than e.g. Pinochet, the former Argentinian junta, Somoza, Trujillo, Batista and other bloodstained right winger dictators in Latin America who were Americas 'bastards'

The longest bloodiest guerilla war in the Western Hemisphere during the 20th century
was that of the Cuban peasants against the Castro regime put down finally by burning them out with Russian Tanks and Flamethrowers.

I stand by my words Castro's hands are more bloodstained than those you mention.

Under Batista, Castro was imprisoned and later released, Che and the Castro boys never made those kind of mistakes, they just put Cubans before firing squads with or without a trial.

Che claimed trials were not necessary for enemies of the People

Batista's government was corrupt but for the most part the Cuban People were allowed to live their lives unimpeded, not so under Castro.

As a matter of fact they had one of the highest standards of living in the Western Hemisphere or compared with European Countries at that time,

[RiverRock]

The USA was wrong for any support it has made of corrupt, murdering, dictators. It is against American ideology and doctrines the nation was founded on.

In these cases the decision makers in our governments thinking was that the outcome justified the dirty work. Like in Iraq lots of death and destruction was caused but it will be worth it in the end if the Iraqis can live free and have a better life. (and we get stable middle east for oil :)

I completely disagree with this thinking. I also found an interesting article that says it well...

quote:

"On the one hand, you could argue that this is simply Machiavelli in action. The ends justify the means. The US secures outcomes in its national interest, but has to stomach relations with a few unsavory people.

However, in almost all cases, US support of corrupt regimes has ended in disastrous consequences for our own national self interest. Support the corrupt regime of Batista got us exasperated Cubans and 50 years of Castro . Support of the corrupt Shah [Iran] got us a hostage crisis and 30 years of an extremist government openly developing nuclear weapons. Support of [Sadaam Hussein] Iraq got us two wars in 20 years. Support Saudi Arabia got us 2 oil shocks and the 9/11 terrorist attacks. [I would also add support of the Taliban in Afghanistan!]

It’s time to take a different approach to foreign policy. Instead of supporting whichever dictator suits our interests at any given moment, instead of propping up corrupt regimes, let’s have a more principled approach.

Let’s stop meddling in the internal affairs of other countries. It’s a hard habit to break, but it’s time we did.

Let’s encourage economic development around the globe. Ultimately, economic growth leads to a middle class, which leads to less extremism, which leads to more political freedoms.

Let’s stop supporting corrupt regimes and dictators because they can help our interests in the short term. That just leads to internal resentment and ultimately radicals overthrowing the government anyway."

www.fixourpolicies.com

[kentuckydan]

Che the ‘Guerrilla Fighter’ – Literally! (http://www.lewrockwell.com/fontova/fontova52.html)

When your professor calls Che a "guerrilla fighter" he's correct, but unwittingly. The term "Indian fighter" was used for cowboys who fought against Indians right?

Well, did your history prof tell you that one of the bloodiest and longest guerrilla wars on this continent was fought – not by – but against Fidel and Che, and by landless peasants?

Didn't think so. Farm collectivization was no more voluntary in Cuba than in the Ukraine.

Che had a very bloody (and typically cowardly) hand in one of the major anti-insurgency wars on this continent. 80 per cent of these anti-communist guerrillas were executed on the spot upon capture, a Che specialty. For my book I interviewed several of the lucky former rebels who managed to escape the slaughter. "We fought with the fury of cornered beasts," I titled the chapter, using the phrase one used to describe their desperate freedom fight against the Soviet occupation of Cuba through their proxies Fidel and Che.

In 1956 when Che linked up with Fidel, Raul, and their Cuban chums in Mexico city, one of them (now in exile) recalls Che railing against the Hungarian freedom-fighters as "Fascists!" and cheering their extermination by Soviet tanks.

In 1962 Che got a chance to do more than cheer from the sidelines. He had a hand in the following: "Cuban militia units commanded by Russian officers employed flame-throwers to burn the palm-thatched cottages in the Escambray countryside. The peasant occupants were accused of feeding the counterrevolutionaries and bandits." At one point in 1962, one of every 17 Cubans was a political prisoner. Fidel himself admits that they faced 179 bands of "counter-revolutionaries" and "bandits."

Mass murder was the order in Cuba's countryside. It was the only way to decimate so many rebels. These country folk went after the Reds with a ferocity that saw Fidel and Che running to their Soviet sugar daddies and tugging their pants in panic. That commie bit about how "a guerrilla swims in the sea which is the people, etc." fit Cuba's anti-Fidel and Che rebellion to a T. So in a relocation and concentration campaign that shamed anything the Brits did to the Boers, the gallant Communists ripped hundreds of thousands of Cubans from their ancestral homes and herded them into concentration camps on the opposite side of Cuba. I interview several of these "relocated" families too.

[kentuckydan]

Here's a UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization) report on Cuba circa 1957 : "One feature of the Cuban social structure is a large middle class," it starts. "Cuban workers are more unionized (proportional to the population) than U.S. workers. The average wage for an 8 hour day in Cuba in 1957 is higher than for workers in Belgium, Denmark, France and Germany. Cuban labor receives 66.6 per cent of gross national income. In the U.S. the figure is 70 per cent, in Switzerland 64 per cent. 44 per cent of Cubans are covered by Social legislation, a higher percentage then in the U.S."

In 1958 Cuba had a higher per-capita income than Austria and Japan. Cuban industrial workers had the 8th highest wages in the world. In the 1950's Cuban stevedores earned more per hour than their counterparts in New Orleans and San Francisco. Cuba had established an 8 hour work-day in 1933 – five years before FDR's New Dealers got around to it. Add to this: one month's paid vacation. The much-lauded (by liberals) Social-Democracies of Western Europe didn't manage this till 30 years later.

And get this Maxine Waters, Barbara Walters, Andrea Mitchel, Diane Sawyer and the rest of you feminist Castro groupies – Cuban women got three months paid maternity leave. I repeat, this was in the 1930's. Cuba, a country 71 per cent white in 1957, was completely desegregated 30 years before Rosa Parks was dragged off that Birmingham bus and handcuffed. In 1958 Cuba had more female college graduates per capita than the U.S.

[kentuckydan]

The Anti-Batista rebellion (not revolution) was staffed and led overwhelmingly by college students and professionals. Unemployed lawyers were prominent (take Fidel Castro himself.) Here's the makeup of the "peasant revolution's" first cabinet, drawn from the leaders in the Anti-Batista fight: 7 lawyers, 2 University professors, 3 University students, 1 doctor, 1 engineer, 1 architect, 1 former city mayor and Colonel who defected from the Batista Army. A notoriously "bourgeois" bunch as Che himself might have put it.

By 1961 however, workers and campesinos (country folk)-made up the overwhelming bulk of the anti-Castroite rebels, especially the guerrillas in the Escambray mountains. And boy, would THAT rebellion make for an action-packed and gut-wrenching movie! If by some miracle it ever got made you can bet these learned critics would pan it too. Who ever heard of poor country-folk fighting against their benefactors Fidel and Che

[kentuckydan]

It's no "parody," Mr Holden, that the "apparatchiks" Garcia depicts in his movie incarcerated and executed a higher percentage of their countrymen in their first three months in power than Hitler and his apparatchiks jailed and executed in their first three years. As well complain that the guards and police in Schinldler's List, Julia or The Diary of Anne Frank come across as hackneyed caricatures. Instead let's portray them with more "complexity," as misguided idealists who followed a leader who unshackled the German working class from its subserviance to snooty barons, who eradicated Germany's unemployment and who ended Germany's national humiliation at the hands of Europe's premier Imperialist powers.

[kentuckydan]

Movie Critics Aghast at Andy Garcia's The Lost City (http://www.lewrockwell.com/fontova/fontova56.html)

[kentuckydan]

Castro, Not Pinochet, Is the Real Villain (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18587)Two former Latin American heads of state have been much in the news lately. One because he passed away, the other because his death seems imminent. The terms "human rights abuses," along with "murders and tortures" appear consistently in the articles on one, while being almost completely absent from stories about the other.

One leader jailed more political prisoners as a percentage of population than Hilter and Stalin—and for three times as long. Modern history's longest-suffering political prisoners languished in the prisons and forced-labor camps established by his regime. According to the Harvard-published “Black Book of Communism,” he executed 14,000 subjects by firing squad. These ranged in age from 16 to 68 and included several women, at least one of them pregnant. According to the scholars and researchers at the Cuba Archive, his regime’s total death toll—from torture, prison beatings, machine gunning of escapees, drownings, etc.—comes to more than 112,000. According to Freedom House, 500,000 Cubans have suffered in his gulag and torture chambers. Today, 47 years after the establishment of the totalitarian police state, political prisoners still languish in his regime’s prisons for quoting Martin Luther King and Gandhi.

continued

[RiverRock]

beezneesman: Somehow I don't think the USA is in any position to be doing anything much to or about Chavez so why waste time blowing off hot air about it online.

beezneesman:So are you going for regime change in Venezuela then? I don't think so - especially not now the money's run out.

No one takes Chavez as a serious threat for a war. He is all talk and will keep selling us oil no matter what big talk he makes to his subjects.

But I assure you that if the American people were behind it (very unlikely it would happen), the American military could overthrow Chavez in a matter of weeks tops. With Russian weapons and a 700 billion dollar bail out or not. What percentage of all U.S. forces are in Iraq.. 5-6% total? Not to mention that all forces are volunteer and not drafted.

Chavez would piss his pants if the U.S. actually invaded. That's part of the reason his speeches are so funny.

Don't believe the Anti-Americanism that is going around the world that likes to rejoice in the thought of the collapse and weakness of America and absurdly exaggerates things as they are currently.

[saprosky]

Chavez got what he wants. :eek:

BBC News, Caracas
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has announced that he wants to develop a nuclear programme with the aid of his country's ally, Russia.

Mr Chavez emphasised that he wanted nuclear power only for peaceful ends, citing energy and medical purposes.
But the announcement, on top of large weapons purchases, is likely to feed growing concern about the increasing Venezuelan military power.
Venezuela has spent $4bn on Russian arms and plans to buy more from China.

[dzerassa]

the American military could overthrow Chavez in a matter of weeks tops.

Chavez would piss his pants if the U.S. actually invaded. .

don't u give to much credit to american military?
all they can is bomb the country and after that sit in guarded zones from time to time making raids in the country and losing people either their own soldiers or civilians taken by mistake or not for bandits.

as for chavez, i think bush wouldn't even find his pants if someone really started invasion in his country

[kentuckydan]

don't u give to much credit to american military?
all they can is bomb the country and after that sit in guarded zones from time to time making raids in the country and losing people either their own soldiers or civilians taken by mistake or not for bandits.

as for chavez, i think bush wouldn't even find his pants if someone really started invasion in his country


Gosh that sounds like what's been happening in Georgia, our depravity must be contagious.

Let me see. Weren't you one of the ones all indignent about the US putting defensive missiles in MidEastern Countries?

All the while your country was busy getting ready to help a country near us join the nuclear club.

This is going to be a very interesting century

[kentuckydan]

Alternatively , you might have said , " Ooops . Missed that . What a Cracker !! "
Hey, ho .

Goes well with Chedar

[dzerassa]

All the while your country was busy getting ready to help a country near us join the nuclear club.

This is going to be a very interesting century

russia is surrounded be such countries. at least two of them india and pakistan r far from stable countries

[kentuckydan]

russia is surrounded be such countries. at least two of them india and pakistan r far from stable countries

Which has what to do with defensive missiles in Poland? Besides the huffing and puffing of the Russian Wolf that they are now going to point nuclear missiles at Poland.

Which seems really stupid to me. Why aim your missiles at someone who can't shoot back?

Just because you like seeing some of them being shot down?

Oh well Russia will have NO problem overwhelming whatever ABMs are in Poland and wiping it off the face of the earth if it chooses to.

Has Russia threatened to aim some of their nuclear arsental at India and China?

Or do they just like to threaten smaller non-nuclear nations like Poland, the Czech Republic, Ukraine and stomp on Great Powers like Georgia????

[kentuckydan]

The only thing we should do about Venezuela is nothing

Just develope energy independence .

Massive Oil Deposit Could Increase US reserves by 10x (http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news2.13s.html)

America is sitting on top of a super massive 200 billion barrel Oil Field that could potentially make America Energy Independent and until now has largely gone unnoticed. Thanks to new technology the Bakken Formation in North Dakota could boost America’s Oil reserves by an incredible 10 times, giving western economies the trump card against OPEC’s short squeeze on oil supply and making Iranian and Venezuelan threats of disrupted supply irrelevant.

In the next 30 days the USGS (U.S. Geological Survey) will release a new report giving an accurate resource assessment of the Bakken Oil Formation that covers North Dakota and portions of South Dakota and Montana. With new horizontal drilling technology it is believed that from 175 to 500 billion barrels of recoverable oil are held in this 200,000 square mile reserve that was initially discovered in 1951. The USGS did an initial study back in 1999 that estimated 400 billion recoverable barrels were present but with prices bottoming out at $10 a barrel back then the report was dismissed because of the higher cost of horizontal drilling techniques that would be needed, estimated at $20-$40 a barrel.

It was not until 2007, when EOG Resources of Texas started a frenzy when they drilled a single well in Parshal N.D. that is expected to yield 700,000 barrels of oil that real excitement and money started to flow in North Dakota. Marathon Oil is investing $1.5 billion and drilling 300 new wells in what is expected to be one of the greatest booms in Oil discovery since Oil was discovered in Saudi Arabia in 1938.

The US imported about 14 million barrels of Oil per day in 2007 , which means US consumers sent about $340 Billion Dollars over seas building palaces in Dubai and propping up unfriendly regimes around the World, if 200 billion barrels of oil at $90 a barrel are recovered in the high plains the added wealth to the US economy would be $18 Trillion Dollars which would go a long way in stabilizing the US trade deficit and could cut the cost of oil in half in the long run


To put 400 Billion Barrels of recoverable Oil in perspective.

The known reserves of the top 10 Oil Nations as of 2005

Was 818 Billion Barrels

Greatest Oil Reserves by Country (2005) (http://internationaltrade.suite101.com/article.cfm/top_ten_oil_countries)

[dzerassa]

Which has what to do with defensive missiles in Poland? Besides the huffing and puffing of the Russian Wolf that they are now going to point nuclear missiles at Poland.

Which seems really stupid to me. Why aim your missiles at someone who can't shoot back?

Just because you like seeing some of them being shot down?

Oh well Russia will have NO problem overwhelming whatever ABMs are in Poland and wiping it off the face of the earth if it chooses to.

Has Russia threatened to aim some of their nuclear arsental at India and China?

Or do they just like to threaten smaller non-nuclear nations like Poland, the Czech Republic, Ukraine and stomp on Great Powers like Georgia????

dan, i am not military and don't pretend that i understand everything. but i think if our military doesn't like that poland and check will have those missiles, if they don't like that a military bloc nato is closer and closer to russian borders, that russia is surrounded by american military bases, etc they have right for such worries. i think your military would have the same worries if russia opened its bases in canda, mexico, etc.

as for small non nuclear countries, so this is america which uses them in its opposition to russia.

[Hoopy]

The only thing we should do about Venezuela is nothing

Just develope energy independence .


Dan Scotland is going to build the worlds biggest tidal turbine and have plans for many more,we have lots of "wind farms" and for once the Scottish weather seems to be benificial to something we want to do.
We have had a lot of protests about the sighting of some of these windfarms and this photo of Stirling castle is a perfect example the protesters have been using.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/06/27/article-1029836-01C255ED00000578-144_468x326.jpg

[beezneesman]

Castro, Not Pinochet, Is the Real Villain (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18587)Two former Latin American heads of state have been much in the news lately. One because he passed away, the other because his death seems imminent. The terms "human rights abuses," along with "murders and tortures" appear consistently in the articles on one, while being almost completely absent from stories about the other.

One leader jailed more political prisoners as a percentage of population than Hilter and Stalin—and for three times as long. Modern history's longest-suffering political prisoners languished in the prisons and forced-labor camps established by his regime. According to the Harvard-published “Black Book of Communism,” he executed 14,000 subjects by firing squad. These ranged in age from 16 to 68 and included several women, at least one of them pregnant. According to the scholars and researchers at the Cuba Archive, his regime’s total death toll—from torture, prison beatings, machine gunning of escapees, drownings, etc.—comes to more than 112,000. According to Freedom House, 500,000 Cubans have suffered in his gulag and torture chambers. Today, 47 years after the establishment of the totalitarian police state, political prisoners still languish in his regime’s prisons for quoting Martin Luther King and Gandhi.

continued

The figures may well be true but I don't think that necessarily makes him worse than Americas favourite thugs in Latin America over the years (and there have been many more of them).

Of course we will never know now but it is tempting to speculate whether Castro's regime would have followed the same course if they had not been subjected to repeated assassination attempts, invasion, threatened invasion, economic blockade etc over the years by the US Gov. After all even Ho Chi Minh was once an ally of the USA!

[beezneesman]

No one takes Chavez as a serious threat for a war. He is all talk and will keep selling us oil no matter what big talk he makes to his subjects.

But I assure you that if the American people were behind it (very unlikely it would happen), the American military could overthrow Chavez in a matter of weeks tops. With Russian weapons and a 700 billion dollar bail out or not. What percentage of all U.S. forces are in Iraq.. 5-6% total? Not to mention that all forces are volunteer and not drafted.

Chavez would piss his pants if the U.S. actually invaded. That's part of the reason his speeches are so funny.

I would have thought that events of the last 7 years would have been a bit of a reality check to people in the USA about the elusive nature of easy victories. Chavez would probably love it if the US invaded - he's been preparing for guerrilla war for a while now.
Do you really want to have a third open-ended COIN campaign going on?

[Lucker]

Goes well with Chedar

We have an excellent traditional Cheese over here called Cheddar .
However , it would be too great a coincidence to think that it was similar to your American Chedar snack . What exactly is yours ?

[alpine-frolic]

We have an excelle:)nt traditional Cheese over here called Cheddar .
However , it would be too great a coincidence to think that it was similar to your American Chedar snack . What exactly is yours ?


:):):)
GG is so much amazing; a britt talking about cheese...

[alpine-frolic]

Tomorrow he will give all of us a lesson about wine.

[beezneesman]

:):):)
GG is so much amazing; a britt talking about cheese...

Stilton, Cheddar, Applewood, Leicester, Cheshire, Lancashire, Caerphilly, Wensleydale or my personal favourite Cornish Yarg :)

[alpine-frolic]

Stilton, Cheddar, Applewood, Leicester, Cheshire, Lancashire, Caerphilly, Wensleydale or my personal favourite Cornish Yarg :)

I don't want to bore GG readers, so i will not enumerate french cheeses.

[saprosky]

Tomorrow he will give all of us a lesson about wine.


Nooo, please !!!!!! Or they will talk about brits wines.

Can you imagine it ???? :eek:

[kentuckydan]

dan, i am not military and don't pretend that i understand everything. but i think if our military doesn't like that poland and check will have those missiles, if they don't like that a military bloc nato is closer and closer to russian borders, that russia is surrounded by american military bases, etc they have right for such worries. i think your military would have the same worries if russia opened its bases in canda, mexico, etc.

as for small non nuclear countries, so this is america which uses them in its opposition to russia.


Well you don't have to be military to use logic, If you see two men one wearing a flac jacket and a helmet but carrying no gun and one carrying a gun,

Which one do you aim your gun at?

[huney]

Uh....the guy with the gun?

To my mind the one with the flac jacket is most likely the decision maker. Take him out and the other will surrender. In case of indecision, take them both out (for dinner).

[kentuckydan]

We have an excellent traditional Cheese over here called Cheddar .
However , it would be too great a coincidence to think that it was similar to your American Chedar snack . What exactly is yours ?

I am partial to New York Extra Sharp reserve it's a white crubbly type, the yellow
cheddar is good but that one has got flavour that won't stop

New York extra sharp Cheddar…Gold Medal winner for flavor, texture, body and finish. Beating out 48 great competitors from around the world.

[huney]

I don't want to bore GG readers, so i will not enumerate french cheeses.

Please do. I'm hungry :)

[Lucker]

Frolic , Shut your cheese cake gob!!!
Your days of good cheeses went nearly 20 years ago .
All you have left are bland soft textured slices of lifeless boredom .
Every decent smallholder over here now produces their own rich textured , full flavoured , odes of cheese paradise .
Great master brands representing the very backbone of our industry --- Wensleydale and Stilton , --- now come infused with Pineapple , Orange , Cranberry , Strawberry , Black berry . They melt in your mind and mouth .
You no longer have great Cheeses , Alpenis . We have literally hundreds -- an inspiration to the rest of Europe and something to be admired but not completely understood by others .

As for Wines . You cheat by loading them with extra water and sugar , and , rumour has it , that much of your acid is used for more than cleaning the containers .
Your grip of the market has declined so much that Californian reds were preferred in blind test conditions to your once esteemed Bordeaux and Burgundies .
All you have left is Truffles . And Johnny Halliday .
Or is he also dead ?

[alpine-frolic]

Frolic , Shut your cheese cake gob!!!
Your days of good cheeses went nearly 20 years ago .
All you have left are bland soft textured slices of lifeless boredom .
Every decent smallholder over here now produces their own rich textured , full flavoured , odes of cheese paradise .
Great master brands representing the very backbone of our industry --- Wensleydale and Stilton , --- now come infused with Pineapple , Orange , Cranberry , Strawberry , Black berry . They melt in your mind and mouth .
You no longer have great Cheeses , Alpenis . We have literally hundreds -- an inspiration to the rest of Europe and something to be admired but not completely understood by others .

As for Wines . You cheat by loading them with extra water and sugar , and , rumour has it , that much of your acid is used for more than cleaning the containers .
Your grip of the market has declined so much that Californian reds were preferred in blind test conditions to your once esteemed Bordeaux and Burgundies .
All you have left is Truffles . And Johnny Halliday .
Or is he also dead ?

A lot of eceonomists have predicted the actual financial crisis , some 3 years ago. It seems they were right.
Yesterday i predicted a lesson about wine from Ramon for today. It seems i wasn't wrong.

[alpine-frolic]

Frolic , Shut your cheese cake gob!!!
Your days of good cheeses went nearly 20 years ago .
All you have left are bland soft textured slices of lifeless boredom .
Every decent smallholder over here now produces their own rich textured , full flavoured , odes of cheese paradise .
Great master brands representing the very backbone of our industry --- Wensleydale and Stilton , --- now come infused with Pineapple , Orange , Cranberry , Strawberry , Black berry . They melt in your mind and mouth .
You no longer have great Cheeses , Alpenis . We have literally hundreds -- an inspiration to the rest of Europe and something to be admired but not completely understood by others .

As for Wines . You cheat by loading them with extra water and sugar , and , rumour has it , that much of your acid is used for more than cleaning the containers .
Your grip of the market has declined so much that Californian reds were preferred in blind test conditions to your once esteemed Bordeaux and Burgundies .
All you have left is Truffles . And Johnny Halliday .
Or is he also dead ?

About Johnny Halliday, he is allways alive, but only the body, his mind has left this world very long time ago.

[RiverRock]

dzerassa: don't u give to much credit to american military?
all they can is bomb the country and after that sit in guarded zones from time to time making raids in the country and losing people either their own soldiers or civilians taken by mistake or not for bandits.


beezneesman: I would have thought that events of the last 7 years would have been a bit of a reality check to people in the USA about the elusive nature of easy victories. Chavez would probably love it if the US invaded - he's been preparing for guerrilla war for a while now.
Do you really want to have a third open-ended COIN campaign going on?


It took less than a month to overthrow Saddam Hussein! :) If we would have left then, we (U.K. and U.S.) won. Don't mistake occupation (which can't be won--especially when 90% of people in US are against it) and nation building for real war. Also America has only lost a few thousand people, while Iraq has lost over a million. Would Chavez and his guerrilla fighters call that "victory against the yankees"?

All I am saying if warranted at present no nation on Earth or nations in history could win a real (no hands tied) war with American military capability except nuclear in which case everyone dies. Even with 6% of U.S. forces in Iraq and a 700 billion bailout. Do you agree? If not we can start a new topic on why this is true. That's just the way it is.


However, I am against any war that is not last resort and justified including Iraq. Spending American resources and lives for other nations and/or oil is ridiculous. I want No more world police except to ally nations that strongly ASK and show gratitude. No more U.S. army bases all over the world. Can you imagine how much a surplus of money the U.S. would have if it stopped entangling itself in the whole worlds affairs that doesn't have to concern us.

Let the collapse of the American "empire" happen. Bad short term. Bad for most nations in the world that will have to spend money and resources on defending themselves.. But very good in long term for Americans.

[RiverRock]

*I got the large claim that Iraq has lost over a million from British polls such as
http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=78

The actual number is probably much less depending on who you ask, but the point was they lost a lot more than the invaders did. And I can't edit the post now.

[beezneesman]

*I got the large claim that Iraq has lost over a million from British polls such as
http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=78

The actual number is probably much less depending on who you ask, but the point was they lost a lot more than the invaders did. And I can't edit the post now.


Iraqbodycount puts the numbers at much less than that but large numbers of people have fled the country as well.

In real terms US casualty figures are much higher than the headline numbers of those who have been killed. Because of improvements in vehicle and body armour and advanced trauma management many soldiers are surviving injuries that would have killed them in previous wars. However, in many cases the nature and scale of their injuries means that they are removed from the ORBAT (I think the US mil term is TO&E) as effectively as if they had been killed. I am not sure what the ratio is in terms of injured:killed and how many of those injured actually return to active duty.

[beezneesman]

Let the collapse of the American "empire" happen. Bad short term. Bad for most nations in the world that will have to spend money and resources on defending themselves.. But very good in long term for Americans.

Well it worked for us in the UK and France, people over here are materially much better off than when we had empires. Whether it will work for the USA of course remains to be seen.

[beezneesman]

It took less than a month to overthrow Saddam Hussein! :) If we would have left then, we (U.K. and U.S.) won. Don't mistake occupation (which can't be won--especially when 90% of people in US are against it) and nation building for real war.

Everyone knew back in late 2002 that defeating the third rate, decrepit, badly led, conscripted army of a tinpot dictator like Saddam would be no problem for the US mil. Everyone also knew that the real problem would be what the hell to do when you actually got to Baghdad and it's still too early for that particular victory parade. So far the only winner has been the Iranians who have had someone else remove a major enemy for them.

[kentuckydan]

Everyone knew back in late 2002 that defeating the third rate, decrepit, badly led, conscripted army of a tinpot dictator like Saddam would be no problem for the US mil. Everyone also knew that the real problem would be what the hell to do when you actually got to Baghdad and it's still too early for that particular victory parade. So far the only winner has been the Iranians who have had someone else remove a major enemy for them.

A bit like WW2 I am sure Stalin was glad that Hitler was gone, gave him a free sweep of Eastern Europe. He ended up with far more than the deal he originally cut with Hitler.

[Lucker]

Yesterday i predicted a lesson about wine from Ramon for today. It seems i wasn't wrong.[/QUOTE]

What is your point Mister Squealer ?
Are you saying the murderer is somehow vindicated by predicting his own guilt ?

[alpine-frolic]

Yesterday i predicted a lesson about wine from Ramon for today. It seems i wasn't wrong.

What is your point Mister Squealer ?
Are you saying the murderer is somehow vindicated by predicting his own guilt ?[/QUOTE]

i see you are allways alive...

[Lucker]

We say , "On the Ball" . Unlike your Football team ROFL

[alpine-frolic]

We say , "On the Ball" . Unlike your Football team ROFL
Mostly have 2 so we say on the balls.