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View Full Version : Time to Treat Russia as a Partner


Neilikka
09-24-2008, 11:54 AM
Before heading to Moscow to participate in the recent Valdai Discussion Club, I had the sense that the United States was on the verge of a new era of confrontation with Moscow that could prove far more dangerous and unstable than the previous Cold War. Alliances are more rickety and as the war last month in Georgia proves, communication is not always clear, with tragic results.
Suffice to say that the Valdai meetings did little to alleviate my concerns. The Russian presenters, with the exception of opposition figure Garry Kasparov, were all singing from the same song sheet: “We don’t want a new era of confrontation, but the choice is yours” — the United States’.
And from the U.S. side, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice made a powerful speech on Sept. 18, concluding, “The decision is Russia’s and Russia’s alone.” Obviously both Moscow and Washington have choices, but I have little confidence U.S. leaders will make the right ones that will enhance the security of the United States and Europe, let alone Russia. What Washington needs right now is not megaphone diplomacy with Moscow, but real diplomacy.
While the United States may deplore the Kremlin’s decision to invade Georgia — and certainly its decision to rapidly and unilaterally recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia was wrong — the consensus among Russian politicians and most people is that the Kremlin was right and justified. Although government propaganda on television is partially responsible for this national consensus, it also reflects the country’s catharsis after more than 15 years of perceived relentless geopolitical expansion of the West at Moscow’s expense.
President Dmitry Medvedev told us that when he spoke with U.S. President George W. Bush on the phone during the hostilities with Georgia, Bush asked him, “What do you need this for?” Medvedev responded, “George, I had no choice, and if you were in my shoes you would have done exactly the same, only more brutally.” Medvedev went on to say that if Washington chooses to expand ties with Georgia and arm it, Washington does so “at its own risk.”
When Medvedev said at Valdai, “We will not tolerate any more humiliation, and we are not joking,” I believed him. Russian history tells us that we should not underestimate the willingness of Moscow to spill blood to defend the country’s interests as it sees fit. At this moment, the United States needs to focus on that prospect rather than spend so much energy defending past policy.
The Kremlin perceives the Balkan war, NATO expansion, Kosovo independence and missile-defense deployment in Central Europe as having one thing in common — the U.S. drive to flaunt its interests and ultimately contain if not weaken Russia’s geopolitical position. During the administration of President Bill Clinton, Washington’s strategy was to tell Moscow that these pro-U.S. measures were in Russia’s interests. The Bush administration has harped on Russia’s supposed obsession with zero-sum thinking, but the net result was the same — the United States did what it wanted, and it did not take Russian interests seriously.
For years since the Cold War, I have believed that war with Russia had a likelihood of close to zero. Today, that probability seems, while obviously difficult to quantify, between 1 and 2 percent and rising. Frankly, I find that an unnecessarily risky proposition which requires some bold, creative and ultimately wise thinking on the part of the U.S. to reduce the risk.
If the U.S. desire is for a more liberal and democratic Russia that is at peace with its neighbors, who really believes that a policy of isolation and confrontation — the current U.S. course — will help achieve those goals? After spending the past 30 years studying Russia and working with Russians, I am convinced that the answer is “no.” When the Kremlin tells us that the current global security structure is not working, it is right. It is entirely wrong, however, to insist on spheres of influence and “privileged relations with our neighbors.”
But the Bush administration’s approach that presses every Kremlin red button and crosses every one of its “red lines” is also dangerously failing. For example, does rapid NATO expansion and deployment of missile-defense components in the Czech Republic and Poland really advance U.S. security interests at this moment?
Now is not the time to freeze the Russians out but to engage them more seriously than the United States ever has since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
The United States may well find itself surprised with how engagement and respect may lead to deeper cooperation with the Kremlin on global security challenges and a more pluralistic and open Russia that is at peace with its neighbors. I know that sounds counterintuitive and certainly runs against the political mood in the United States, but the fact is that Washington has never tried such an approach in the post-Soviet period.
This does not by any measure mean appeasing the Kremlin or giving it a veto over anything. But it does mean treating Russia more like a real partner to achieve long-term objectives in the interests of all parties. If the United States continues its current policy toward Russia, it increases the likelihood of a head-on collision between two global powers.
Andrew C. Kuchins is director and senior fellow of the Russia and Eurasia program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

St.Petersburg Times

Lucker
09-24-2008, 12:16 PM
Now that is what I see as a responsible and thoughtful position .
Obviously there are inflections I would take issue with , but the main thrust has to be sensible .
Clearly the financial crisis has modified people's positions and there is no doubt that the withdrawal of money and investment from Russia , allied to the debt crisis and the simultaneous major oil price fall , shook Russia badly .
We are obliged to co-operate for long term reasons .
It would be smart if both power blocks found ways of making a tactical present to the other --- it is important to change the climate before real and meaningful discussions can occur .
I was wondering if Putin might consider enrolling in a Los Angeles modern dancing class for the Winter term . Obama , once inaugarated , could tour Russia singing African slave songs and American Blues numbers .

Voobrazheniye
09-24-2008, 12:19 PM
Now that is what I see as a responsible and thoughtful position .
Obviously there are inflections I would take issue with , but the main thrust has to be sensible .
Clearly the financial crisis has modified people's positions and there is no doubt that the withdrawal of money and investment from Russia , allied to the debt crisis and the simultaneous major oil price fall , shook Russia badly .
We are obliged to co-operate for long term reasons .
It would be smart if both power blocks found ways of making a tactical present to the other --- it is important to change the climate before real and meaningful discussions can occur .
I was wondering if Putin might consider enrolling in a Los Angeles modern dancing class for the Winter term . Obama , once inaugarated , could tour Russia singing African slave songs and American Blues numbers .

Actually, Senator Obama will have plenty of time to provide entertainment to the Russian masses after he concludes his losing campaign. He certainly hasn't spent much time in the Senate lately and will hardly be missed there.

Lucker
09-24-2008, 12:49 PM
Of course he has not .
Pressing matters
Singing Classes

brown-raider
09-24-2008, 01:21 PM
Now that is what I see as a responsible and thoughtful position .
Obviously there are inflections I would take issue with , but the main thrust has to be sensible .
Clearly the financial crisis has modified people's positions and there is no doubt that the withdrawal of money and investment from Russia , allied to the debt crisis and the simultaneous major oil price fall , shook Russia badly .
We are obliged to co-operate for long term reasons .
It would be smart if both power blocks found ways of making a tactical present to the other --- it is important to change the climate before real and meaningful discussions can occur .
I was wondering if Putin might consider enrolling in a Los Angeles modern dancing class for the Winter term . Obama , once inaugarated , could tour Russia singing African slave songs and American Blues numbers .Ray I bet you get yourself fixed up like al jolson and sing mammie in front of the mirror... then:yo: you break into get jiggy with it as you pretend to be bamm bamm

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WARNING:Again you are making borderline racist comments.Please try to be more civil if you can,if not please stop posting.Moderator
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Neilikka
09-24-2008, 03:23 PM
:confused:

:drum::drum:

Bamm, Bamm? Why? :confused:

Lucker
09-24-2008, 04:04 PM
Mexicans have a very individual idea of what is funny .
They chew a lot of strange things and eat funnny beans .

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Warning: Please stop posting racial comments. Other members have already been warned. Moderator

Rileymat
09-24-2008, 08:45 PM
Of course he has not .
Pressing matters
Singing Classes


And, does Obama need a teleprompter to sing correctly also?

Lucker
09-24-2008, 09:13 PM
Just leave my man alone or I will get Moddy to beat you up

IamKeenan
09-25-2008, 03:24 AM
Ray I bet you get yourself fixed up like al jolson and sing mammie in front of the mirror... then:yo: you break into get jiggy with it as you pretend to be bamm bamm

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WARNING:Again you are making borderline racist comments.Please try to be more civil if you can,if not please stop posting.Moderator
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Borderline?? No, just edgy!!! Is this a Police state or what? :confused:

Voobrazheniye
09-25-2008, 05:19 AM
OK, guys... maybe it's not my place to interject here, but please cool it before the moderators decide to start hitting the "eject" buttons. There ARE too many comments lately that are over the line with regard to race.

We can rough each other up all we want on issues, take good-natured jabs at each other about our countries - provided it is truly good natured and not crossing over into hate - and we can even get a little tearse and personal sometimes. But racial slurs are out of bounds. We all know it. And this does not mean just avoiding certain words that begin with "N."

Frank, you know that I am no fan of Senator Obama. The fact that such a far-left liberal, with absolutely no relevant experience, could have a real shot at the presidency is a grave concern, in my opinion. (And I would not want a far-right ideologue with no experience either.) But I oppose him for his ideology and his complete lack of experience, not for his race. I detest thinking of where he and his ideological cronies might take the country, but I do not despise him for his skin color or ethnic origin. I believe that none of us should.

If this is what's in your heart, it really should stay there and not in the forum. As others have said many times here, we win by prevailing in ideas, not through lowbrow, ad hominem attacks. When we resort to this kind of response, the other side always wins, even if only by comparison.

The "blackface" and "mammy" references are old biases that any black person can only take as demeaning and insulting. As such, they cross the line into hateful racial speech. There is no other way to view that, I'm afraid.

And Ray, your anti-Mexican retorts, regarding beans and such, crossed the line too. Again, in my opinion. It gets too close to the term "beaner," which is offensive to Mexicans.

I'm sure there will be plenty of responses about being "oversensitive" on these matters. So be it. I've said my peace... take it or leave it. I would just like to see the venom throttled back a bit so that Moddy or Gabber don't have to start banning anyone.

Thanks for listening...

Paul (perhaps momentarily channeling the spirit of Steve)

brown-raider
09-25-2008, 06:17 AM
Mexicans have a very individual idea of what is funny .
They chew a lot of strange things and eat funnny beans .

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Warning: Please stop posting racial comments. Other members have already been warned. Moderatormoderator I know that you are doing your job but these comments don't bother me,
First of all Ray Ray I am not a Mexican .. I am a 5th generation American.... do I have Mexican Blood yes , but I also have American Indian blood (yaki) and Italian blood, so what am I American.. or a mutt if you wish... But fight one bean and you'll fight the whole burrito.. that's a fact..:lol: