Ukrainian political coalition dissolved

[statajack]

I see that the western leaning Yuschenko/Tymoshenko coalition has been dissolved this morning after eternal disagreement and bickering. They have thirty days to come up with another governing coalition or the nation is looking at yet another general election. What a shame.

Any Ukrainians in here got an idea of what will happen? What is the general mood on the ground?

[Hoopy]

If you remember neither of them actually won the highest vote,that was Yanocovich.I can't see any of them trying to create a goverment with him as he's from the Donetsk region and highly pro-Russian.

[statajack]

Yes I am aware of Yanukovich and his general slant.

If the other two main protagonists can't bang a few heads and get it together, then it's yet another visit to the ballot box for the nation.

I feel very sorry for the Ukrainians en masse. They must be completely fed up with constant electioneering by the politicians.

[Lucker]

Yuschenko appears too reasonable , too often .
He should have lost that woman , whom Marlon lusts after , a long time ago . As long as she remains , I can personally only see trouble and it would not surprise me if she was financially beholden to Moscow in a way that should scare Ukrainians rigid .
Unfortunately , I cannot yet substantiate such a feeling . But it's what I think might very well be true based on the positions she adopts and her repeated unwillingness to work with the boss .

[Voobrazheniye]

Representatives of Block Timoshenko were demonstrating in Kharkov today. They are already working to get popular support.

I spoke with several friends today about the overall situation in the country - internal politics, Russia's threats, the subversion going on in Crimea, etc. Of the few people I spoke with, the BIGGEST issue is the greed and ineffectiveness of the government here.

There is no leadership, no longer-term vision, no strategy to deal with the many problems facing the country. Everyone in the government is too busy looking out for themselves in the here and now - their power, position, wealth, etc. - to do their jobs, unite the country and address the real problems that face Ukraine.

They are too busy squabbling among themselves and protecting their own interests to see what they are doing to the country in the process. And the general population is not yet mad enough about it to really turn up the heat and demand better. Perhaps they never will be.

Meanwhile, Russia, which certainly DOES have strong leadership, probably feels that it can do what it wants when it wants with Ukraine. Remember that I am here in Eastern Ukraine, which does feel a stronger cultural link to Russia than the western part, but even here, many who I know are worried. A few feel that it would be no problem if this region was taken over by Russia, but most of my friends are very worried, and a few are even talking about contingency plans (like moving to Lviv) if things become really ominous.

It's hard to know what the future holds, but as long as Ukraine's government is so unstable and run by so many self-interested jokes... the future doesn't look so bright.

[statajack]

Representatives of Block Timoshenko were demonstrating in Kharkov today. They are already working to get popular support.

I spoke with several friends today about the overall situation in the country - internal politics, Russia's threats, the subversion going on in Crimea, etc. Of the few people I spoke with, the BIGGEST issue is the greed and ineffectiveness of the government here.

There is no leadership, no longer-term vision, no strategy to deal with the many problems facing the country. Everyone in the government is too busy looking out for themselves in the here and now - their power, position, wealth, etc. - to do their jobs, unite the country and address the real problems that face Ukraine.

They are too busy squabbling among themselves and protecting their own interests to see what they are doing to the country in the process. And the general population is not yet mad enough about it to really turn up the heat and demand better. Perhaps they never will be.

Meanwhile, Russia, which certainly DOES have strong leadership, probably feels that it can do what it wants when it wants with Ukraine. Remember that I am here in Eastern Ukraine, which does feel a stronger cultural link to Russia than the western part, but even here, many who I know are worried. A few feel that it would be no problem if this region was taken over by Russia, but most of my friends are very worried, and a few are even talking about contingency plans (like moving to Lviv) if things become really ominous.

It's hard to know what the future holds, but as long as Ukraine's government is so unstable and run by so many self-interested jokes... the future doesn't look so bright.

Interesting hearing what is being said in the Eastern part of the country.

I know this is a rather broad brush comment, but you could almost run a line down the Dnipro, and regionally split the country in two.

If I recall, it was around the time of the Russian Revolution that Western Ukraine tried to split off as an independent State. They formed a band of political executives to try and gain some momentum, but the effort was short lived.

One could almost see this type of scenario as being the most suitable, if the ultimate priority were a peaceful existence. But the problem is, it would sever the Euro-Middle East link, and thus unlikely to receive any support from the outside.

[Hoopy]

It's not just west and eastern but also the south.I was in Ukraine at the time of the orange revolution and was in the south and the support there was for Yanokovich.

[Voobrazheniye]

Interesting hearing what is being said in the Eastern part of the country.

I know this is a rather broad brush comment, but you could almost run a line down the Dnipro, and regionally split the country in two.


It's more complicated than that, of course. I was speaking with a friend today, a bright guy in his mid '20s, and he was telling me how strange it seemed for him on the train to Sevastopol last week. It was a Moscow to Sevastopol train, so there were a lot of Russians onboard.

My friend was born and raised in Kharkov. His first language is Russian, but he speaks fluent Ukrainian. His cultural identity is more Russian - he has a strong love of Russian literature and other classics - but his national identity and affiliation is solidly Ukrainian. He said that it seemed strange to be on the train with people (Russians) who spoke the same language and had the same culture, yet seemed so different. He said that he could really feel a very strong difference in attitude, mentality, etc.

So even if many people here relate completely to Russian language and culture, they don't necessarily relate to Russia as a country or wish to lose their Ukrainian identity. Perhaps it is different in Donetsk, Lugansk and - certainly - Sevastopol, but here in Kharkov, at least, a lot of people with very strong ties to Russia still consider themselves solidly Ukrainian.

[RiverRock]

Ramonrive: Yuschenko appears too reasonable , too often .
He should have lost that woman , whom Marlon lusts after (:lol::lol::lol:), a long time ago . As long as she remains , I can personally only see trouble and it would not surprise me if she was financially beholden to Moscow in a way that should scare Ukrainians rigid .
Unfortunately , I cannot yet substantiate such a feeling . But it's what I think might very well be true based on the positions she adopts and her repeated unwillingness to work with the boss .


In the beginning she was pro-Ukrainian and all for stopping Russia from gaining hold in Ukraine, wrong or right? Now she praises Putin, is pro-Russian, and is against NATO, etc...
What happened?

Maybe she was threatened or something by Putin and company?

[RiverRock]

Ok, I found a blog.
When I first heard about Tymoshenko, I thought she was fantastic. Now I read all this stuff out about her :( What is true? Where does she stand?

http://asecondhandconjecture.com/index.php/2008/09/09/buying-tymoshenko/

"Buying Tymoshenko"

"As the European Union commendably attempts to pull Ukraine closer into the safety of the West, Russia has reportedly earmarked $1 billion to fund suddenly pro-Kremlin Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, against heroically pro-Western President Viktor Yushchenko in the 2010 presidential election.

One billion. If true, it seems Russia is ready to make an enormous commitment to the subversion of democracy in her neighbor…and it’s a frighteningly expensive investment to allow to fail.

It is more than a little disturbing how effortlessly and suddenly Tymoshenko changed course over Georgia, into almost perfect alignment with Viktor Yanukovych, the purely pro-Moscow candidate.

Until quite recently Yulia was as pro-Western as Carrie Fischer (ahem), and even endorsed NATO membership and Russian containment. Whether out of corruption or a pragmatic adjustment to Russian hegemonic ascendancy (fear), her abrupt shift is not good. Yushchenko for his part thinks she’s bought and paid for and has ordered state security services to investigate her for treason. Cheney tried mightily to rescue pro-Western unity between the two, but surely failed.

The danger for the West is Yushchenko’s profound unpopularity in Ukraine. The right man might have no chance of being reelected in 2010. Thus the choice could be between Tymoshenko or Yanukovych. According to a new poll by the Ukrainian Forum & Sociology Institute, Yanukovych leads Tymoshenko 27.8 to 22.5, Yushchenko polls an irrelevant 4.7%. Yanukovych believes in Russian solidarity as a principle, Yulia is either cautious or corrupt. You support Yushchenko, but choose Yuila in that situation and hope for the best. Anyone have $1.1 billion handy in Washington?"

[Lucker]

See .You lot think I am some raving lunatic .
Once the Russians see that they invaded South Ossetia and then Georgia , my work will be done .
I can then fly back to my own planet .

[Hoopy]

What do you mean think?we know you are :lol:

[Lucker]

Here's a perspective on Ukraine politics .
Putin wants the Black Sea exploration effort and he has hired Timoschenkyo to help him achieve this , though he will ditch her once she has served his purpose .
So what is she doing at the moment ?
Supporting the Georgian invasion in a variety of ways .
But , much , much more importantly , trying to scupper the efforts of Vanco Energy and the Russian mobsters getting the Black Sea rights ahead of Putin's mates .
Vanco energy has Evgeny Novitsky as a shareholder and he fronts for Russia's Solinetso organised crime group which is mixed up with Moscow's mayor Yuriy Luzkhov who has his grubby fingers everywhere but is still an implaccable enemy of Putin --- they have a non interference stand - off which stretches back a long time .
It is Timoschenkyos job to scupper Vanco by proving that agreements they hold are corrupt and were issued by a previous Government .Because of the company actually being registered in US judicial territory , there is a link up with the US to press charges under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organisations Act .
So it is a lovely scenario .
It looks as though Vanco is totally outgunned and then we will have the real fight between the US and Gazprom HQ, who , themselves have some work to do with certain people at the top of the Solinesto Organised Crime Group .
It's no wonder the Russians went straight through Georgia to the coast .They need a port like Poti . And that is why they are handing out Russian Passports like confetti at the other end in the Crimea . They want Sebastopol .
It's just a matter of time before further fighting of one sort or another breaks out

[beezneesman]

Here's a perspective on Ukraine politics .
Putin wants the Black Sea exploration effort and he has hired Timoschenkyo to help him achieve this , though he will ditch her once she has served his purpose .
So what is she doing at the moment ?
Supporting the Georgian invasion in a variety of ways .
But , much , much more importantly , trying to scupper the efforts of Vanco Energy and the Russian mobsters getting the Black Sea rights ahead of Putin's mates .
Vanco energy has Evgeny Novitsky as a shareholder and he fronts for Russia's Solinetso organised crime group which is mixed up with Moscow's mayor Yuriy Luzkhov who has his grubby fingers everywhere but is still an implaccable enemy of Putin --- they have a non interference stand - off which stretches back a long time .
It is Timoschenkyos job to scupper Vanco by proving that agreements they hold are corrupt and were issued by a previous Government .Because of the company actually being registered in US judicial territory , there is a link up with the US to press charges under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organisations Act .
So it is a lovely scenario .
It looks as though Vanco is totally outgunned and then we will have the real fight between the US and Gazprom HQ, who , themselves have some work to do with certain people at the top of the Solinesto Organised Crime Group .
It's no wonder the Russians went straight through Georgia to the coast .They need a port like Poti . And that is why they are handing out Russian Passports like confetti at the other end in the Crimea . They want Sebastopol .
It's just a matter of time before further fighting of one sort or another breaks out

That will be fun it seems to me that with all the financial turmoil going on at the moment a lot of governments are going to start needing foreign adventures to divert the attention of the sweating peasant masses from problems at home. Welcome to the late 1930s everyone - time to start hanging out our washing on the Siegfried Line again I think :becky: - metaphorically speaking of course

[sunontheway]

Here's a perspective on Ukraine politics .


What, Kremlin's hand again? :becky:

It is very pleasing that you state the value of Moscow affection on the world politics so high. Now the US is not the only monster what is being kicked for every sneezing on the Earth :lol:

"Сразу стали говорить о руке Москвы... да что вы вообще привязались к этим рукам!" © Черномырдин :becky:

[Lucker]

If people bothered to read Posts thoroughly and read Posters across the spectrum of Topics , they would find , for example , that my spleen covers all States which act immorally and with greed and deception .
Some people with fragile characters and more than a touch of the persecution complex only seem able to see what suits them .
As the new Russian Constitution now gives carte blanche to the unacceptable , it is hardly surprising that SMERSCH like tentacles are found everywhere .That is not to say that other States are not bathed in blood . ( Double negative ?? )

[Lucky]

:viannen_55::Laie_23::violin::jester:
its how it looks for me all this
even dont want to talk about politics anymore:brushteeth::JC_coffee2::amen: