Plucky Georgia ? One big Red Card nev er was handed out

[Lucker]

If you are thinking ," OMG , not the same Georgian thread again " , fear not . This is not just a rehash .
You will remember that I would never be turned one iota from telling you that "The War" started a long time before August 7th/8th and that the idea that Saakashvili started an insane assault as the opening of matters was , frankly , nonsense . To the contrary , I suggested , he felt obliged to pre- empt an invasion , probably aimed for August 10th.

The information that follows is from Alexander Melikishvili and if you want to know who he is , simply put his name in the search engine and you will be impressed .
Here are some key findings
Russia's actions were preceded by a series of co-ordinated and sophisticated cyber assaults .They began almost two months before August7/8
The action in July was without any doubt a dress rehearsal for what began on August 8th at 14.00 hours . The main sites that were obliterated were those of the President , Georgian Parliament , Ministry of Defense , Ministry of Foreign Affairs , National Bank , TV Channels . Many sites were defaced with the Presidents face superimposed on a collage of photos of Adolph Hitler .
To give you an idea of how pre planned this all was , a site StopGeorgia.ru was set up to accommodate all underground hackers .One thing they achieved was to manipulate the results of the Quickvote on line poll on the CNN website to qualify Russia's actions as peacekeepers .
The total actions mirrored those taken in Estonia when Russian hackers nearly brought the Estonian government and banking sectors to a halt in 2007 .
Overall , from the viewpoint of information warfare the Russian hackers made a vast contribution to shaping global opinion initially before it was gradually reversed under the influence of foreign journalists as they began to reach the warring parts .
Another unrelated matter underpinning the thrust that everything was manipulated , is the total readiness of huge Russian troop and tank numbers in the Roki pass on August 8th . As I pointed out in my ongoing posts there is only one entry point into South Ossetia and it is through this so called pass .
It appears that Intelligence had been available that it was in full Russian control from at least mid July which explains why the Georgians moved so fast before August 10th though their actions were in vain -- too few troops and equipment .
According to the theory that I am advancing , the weakness of the scenario looked initially to be that only Georgia appeared to be involved in aggressive action . But at the same time it appeared that this attack looked ill prepared and frankly insane with no back up position .And amazingly , all gains were wiped out almost immediately .
I could never understand this from the outset because not even a 10 year old school kid would have launched an offensive in the way that it was done . The fact is that the Russians created this false perspective and pre-empted this apparent glaring black hole of unbelievability by shifting from this unsupportable area , and , instead , painting the Georgian president as unstable and a man so hateful that they would never sit in his presence .The phrases "Ethnic Cleansing " and "Genocide" were heard constantly in the first two days and only ever contrasted with Russian volunteers and Peacekeepers .
Obviously Russians were only ever fed the planned perspective and now it will take many years to show them that the so called facts simply do not make any real world sense .
Slowly the evidence will emerge that shows how the Russians conducted a brilliant PR campaign . My feeling is even stronger now that as the full truth emerges piece by piece , they will have created great and unforeseen damage to their own long term cause .
It is certainly very absorbing and set to run and run

[krevedko]

Hold on a sec, i'll fetch some coke and pop-corn and will sit quietly in the corner watching the girls tearing you apart :becky::becky:





You forgot to mention the road the peace-keepers were taking to enter S.O., that's been renovated about a month prior to the beginning of military action.

[beezneesman]

Russia's actions were preceded by a series of co-ordinated and sophisticated cyber assaults .They began almost two months before August7/8
The action in July was without any doubt a dress rehearsal for what began on August 8th at 14.00 hours . The main sites that were obliterated were those of the President , Georgian Parliament , Ministry of Defense , Ministry of Foreign Affairs , National Bank , TV Channels . Many sites were defaced with the Presidents face superimposed on a collage of photos of Adolph Hitler .

I remembering mentioning the coordinated cyberattacks on Georgia before but we didn't get much of a sensible response from the Putin Jugend

[Lucker]

Only just saw your comment in very soft colour , Kleaver . Did not know this but I expect the mob will claim it is done every year before Winter or that planning permission ( !! ) was granted 18 months before .
Check to see if they put in any road lights and a new Cafe ( joking )

Missed your astute finding Beeswax . Melikshvili is a Georgian but has worked big time in the States for a long time . The mob will claim he is a spy .

[krevedko]

Check to see if they put in any road lights and a new Cafe ( joking )

:megalol:

My coke is getting flat and you're still intact. How very disappointing :becky:

[Lucker]

I always was going to be OK .
What are they going to say ?
Rubbish . Russia Hater . Stupid English pig .
Anything but facts , figures and checkable material .

Anyhow , Team Putin has suffered a lot of setbacks .
Irma and Vlad are worn out-- tremendous fight . Irma is vulnerable to emotional attacks . Jurassic was under stress several hours ago and is presumably whacking back the vodka . Vita has gone very quiet and could still be suffering from shell shock .
The rest won't say anything until they have a front woman and fall person .
I have them all profiled .

[alenika]

What are they going to say ?
Rubbish . Russia Hater . Stupid English pig . oops TU again instead of Quote... Why to say this, you saying yourself :yo: And it's too much english in your first post.

[IamKeenan]

I always was going to be OK .
What are they going to say ?
Rubbish . Russia Hater . Stupid English pig .
Anything but facts , figures and checkable material .

Anyhow , Team Putin has suffered a lot of setbacks .
Irma and Vlad are worn out-- tremendous fight . Irma is vulnerable to emotional attacks . Jurassic was under stress several hours ago and is presumably whacking back the vodka . Vita has gone very quiet and could still be suffering from shell shock .
The rest won't say anything until they have a front woman and fall person .
I have them all profiled .


Amen!!!:lol:

[sunontheway]

Hold on a sec, i'll fetch some coke and pop-corn and will sit quietly in the corner watching the girls tearing you apart :becky::becky:

This time it is going to be a boring movie, Diana :becky: I don't think many people are interested. Ramon should think up something more exciting and provoking :lol:


You forgot to mention the road the peace-keepers were taking to enter S.O., that's been renovated about a month prior to the beginning of military action.

Do doubt actions were expected far before.

[statajack]

Looks like a dead movie so far. Shucks !!

Anybody fancy a grope around in the back row? :behindsofa:

[huney]

Looks like a dead movie so far. Shucks !!

Anybody fancy a grope around in the back row? :behindsofa:

Got any popcorn?

[Sveta's Hero]

Got any popcorn?


Maybe Di still has some popcorn and some flat Coke:becky:

[krevedko]

Looks like a dead movie so far. Shucks !!

Anybody fancy a grope around in the back row? :behindsofa:

Well, I've gained ten kilos in the last couple of hours while waiting for smth interesting to happen here and gobbling popcorn in large quantities (my reaction to suspense :becky:), but alas no signs of blood yet :( :yawn:

So can I join you in your back row? :p


Maybe Di still has some popcorn and some flat Coke

p.s. sorry, folks, ran out of it. I wonder where did it go? :P

[huney]

Maybe Di still has some popcorn and some flat Coke:becky:

Never mind. I'll go make some fresh.

[Lucker]

No stamina these Ruskies
Sliver was a good fighter but she knows I am right -- she is very well connected ( photo memory)
Bella was going to tug on the heart strings but fell asleep whilst reading her Pravda .

Pity .I was going to ask what Sulim Yamadaev was doing with his Chechen mates leading the Vostock batallion in Gori .
The Vostock batallion ( all Chechens and South Ossetians ) were described by the Russian media as part of the Peacekeeping effort .
Unfortunately the Batallion commander , Sulim , is well known and not many months ago was going to be shot ( minimum) by Raznan Kadyron the lunatic Chechen President for a variety of war crimes .The Yamadaev brothers are some of the most notorious psychopathic anti Kremlin separatists you could imagine . Or they were .
But my goodness . How nice to see them in Georgia under the Federation flag fighting as Peacekeepers .
The more you look , the more the undiluted crap that you find in Russia and Chechnya and particularly from the fawning , psychopathic Kadyrov .

[statajack]

Party in the back row............... Hurray......... that's far more fun.

[sunontheway]

Sliver was a good fighter but she knows I am right

As far as I remember she promised in LL not to read your posts anymore. Helps to save much time :becky:

[Lucker]

Just as well they never showed .
I now have the latest summary of events mailed to me and it is mind boggling .
It starts on July 3rd and later clearly identifies the Georgian villages which were destroyed immediately after Saakashvili made a national TV broadcast asking Russia and proxy troops to hold an immediate cease fire -- 7.00p.m. on August 7 th
Before the Georgians began their major move into South Ossetia ( after midnight ) , Russians had destroyed Avnevi and Tamarasheni and Prisi came under heavy fire .
This is just the tip of the summary of events and is a completerly damning indictment of Russian strategy , its implementation and the fabric of lies spun around everything .
It never did make any sense to think that Georgian troops went into SO under little or no real provocation .And surprise , surprise that is exactly what did not happen .
I think the West wants shooting for allowing this incredible deception to become the perceived truth .
I am dumfounded by the brazen tactics that at this point in time have given the world an utterly distorted picture .
If I was half my age , I would research this for a year in Georgia , South Ossetia , Chechnya and North Ossetia -- assuming I could get in . Then I would publish and risk my life getting at the truth about Kadyran in Chechnya -- the most remarkable man of the mountain states . You have to be very careful with him because he has torture chambers beneath his palace which he personally gives hands on time to and afterwards he plays with his Big Cats on the lawns . Like him , pure killers .He was a Section commander at 16 fighting for the separists against the Russians . Now he is Putin's very dangerous pet .
More another time .
It is amazing

[Lucker]

As far as I remember she promised in LL not to read your posts anymore. Helps to save much time :becky:


But why don't you also tell about her earlier comment that my versions agreed with what she had been told privately by her grandfather ( ?)or uncle , a retired KGB high ranking officer and someone she was very coy about , but someone who clearly was well placed whilst he was serving .
The full truth is always best .

[huney]

Roman, have you independent confirmation of events as described in this document?

http://www.sos-georgia.it/documenti/info%20georgia-War%20Timetable-26-08-2008.doc

[Lucker]

Wow
I am very impressed . I have opened it but only read the front page and contents .
I was so excited I had to go and make a cup of tea .
I am going to start wading through it . In answer to your question , it will depend what sources are quoted and it might be that the easiest first check would be through the Georgian Embassy in London .
If it stacks up , it might then make sense to go to the Daily Telegraph -- my paper -- or the Guardian and ask them to vet it and tell us if it is of any interest to them . If they were to publish I would get you credit and half of any publication fee .
But I am getting ahead of myself .
Your use of the Internet is much better developed than mine . Come and live in Brighton .
Thanks

[huney]

Wow
I am very impressed . I have opened it but only read the front page and contents .
I was so excited I had to go and make a cup of tea .
I poured a glass of wine as I am freshly out of my favorite tea :(
If they were to publish I would get you credit and half of any publication fee .
You seem to have noticed what a rabid capitalist I am :becky:
Your use of the Internet is much better developed than mine .
It's easy when you are both creative and persistent :)
Come and live in Brighton .
Thanks
Thank you, but you ought to consider carefully before making such an offer (especially before witnesses)...I may find myself looking for alternate employment and/or living arrangements in the not-so-distant future...You wouldn't happen to have a spare room and/or need to employ a persistent, creative American female of a certain age? I hear we are in short supply of late ;)

[dzerassa]

what a huge load of rubbish.

but i am not going to comment on this 'cause it's 40 days since first ossetian died in this war. it's a sacral number for ossetians-40 days-so i just keep quiet.

by the way ramon u should really keep quiet about anything concerning this war, the fact that u read names of georgian villages doesn't make u expert in this. on the contrary u show your full incompetence in it.

i suggest u should work in saakashvili's government, say minister of disinformation.
u will make a good company to him. just make sure not to use gas heaters not to end up like his prime-minister. in case u go into conflict with him, france can give u political shelter, this country is experienced in providing it to former poltical allies of saakashvili who became his opponent.
and please don't let him eat his tie again, 'cause american investments r not supposed to cover his eaten ties, they r just for weapons to kill ossetians and abhazians.

[Lucker]

I am ignoring your previous Post for the moment because it made me feel faint .
I read the whole document in bed and found I had none of the Appendices -- what they refer to as Annexes , presumably .
Have you printed a full copy ?
Did you get the "Annexes" ?
I thought it was put together very well -- clear , succint and damning beyond my wildest dreams .
I cannot doubt its genuineness but naturally it does need to be checked .
Unless I am too close to the subject , it reads like a world scoop and potentially represents the most damning indictment of Russia's performance imaginable .
Naturally , there are two sides to any matter but every instinct tells me this is entirely accurate because it now makes Georgias actions -- and let's face it , they looked lunatic in isolation ---- believable and consistent .
What I cannot fathom is why nobody else has released the information . Has the World free press had what we call a D Notice placed on its use ?
Even if the Russians denied it until they were blue in the face , nobody but their own hypnotised people would believe them .
So much of what I gleaned is repeated and it is possible that my info. came as snippets from this master diary . However , I am not convinced .
If it is a hoax , it is brilliant and I would not be embarrassed by that . You would need to be a top expert with on the spot experience to fault it . Having said that , I would have liked to see some credits at the end with follow up contact details etc .
But overall I am utterly gobsmacked . What do you think ? Maybe write direct .

[dzerassa]

ramon, was it answer to me? i understood nothing :)

i posted in topic "plucky georgia" yesterday an article from a french newspaper, it's an interview with former minister of defence of georgia and closes saakashvili's former friend. can u translate it somehow and read?

[kentuckydan]

If I was half my age , I would research this for a year in Georgia , South Ossetia , Chechnya and North Ossetia -- assuming I could get in .

Michael Toten did go to the area and has reports on what he found on his website.

You may recall that when I posted information from him previously it was greeted with a rounding chorus of Liar Liar Liar, or was that Lies Lies Lies??
September 15, 2008
Blowback in Russia (http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/09/blowback-in-rus.php)

Russia has a problem. Moscow’s recognition of Georgia’s breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia a few weeks ago has already encouraged some of its own disgruntled minorities to push harder for independence from the Russian Federation. Russia’s semi-autonomous republics of Ingushetia and Tatarstan have both ratcheted up their demands to secede.

Radical Islamists in Ingushetia, just across the Caucasus mountains from Georgia, have waged a low-level insurgency against the Russian government for some time now, though it has yet to reach the level of violent anti-Russian ferocity waged earlier by their cousins in neighboring Chechnya. A new group calling itself the People’s Parliament of Ingushetia has just surfaced after Russia’s adventure in Georgia with the stated aim of secession. More moderate opposition leaders also recently joined the cause of the radicals. Rebellious Ingush are not only emboldened by Russia’s recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, they’re enraged by the assassination a few weeks ago of prominent anti-Kremlin journalist Magomed Yebloyev.

Meanwhile, the All-Tatar Civic Center in Tatarstan, an umbrella organization of various nationalist groups, announced that they likewise want out. They also cite the Abkhazia and South Ossetia precedents. “Russia has lost the moral right not to recognize us,” said Rashit Akhmetov, editor of the Zvezda Povolzhya newspaper in Tatarstan’s capital.

Read the rest in COMMENTARY. (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/totten/30591)

[dzerassa]

Michael Toten did go to the area and has reports on what he found on his website.

You may recall that when I posted information from him previously it was greeted with a rounding chorus of Liar Liar Liar, or was that Lies Lies Lies??
September 15, 2008
Blowback in Russia (http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/09/blowback-in-rus.php)

Radical Islamists in Ingushetia, just across the Caucasus mountains from Georgia, have waged a low-level insurgency against the Russian government for some time now, though it has yet to reach the level of violent anti-Russian ferocity waged earlier by their cousins in neighboring Chechnya. A new group calling itself the People’s Parliament of Ingushetia has just surfaced after Russia’s adventure in Georgia with the stated aim of secession. More moderate opposition leaders also recently joined the cause of the radicals. Rebellious Ingush are not only emboldened by Russia’s recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, they’re enraged by the assassination a few weeks ago of prominent anti-Kremlin journalist Magomed Yebloyev.


Read the rest in COMMENTARY. (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/totten/30591)

listen, i know many ingush, i visit this republic regularly. they have problems with criminal situation but in my opinion it is due to fight for power inside the republic.
ingush demand independence? don't make me laugh. there r a few people who want to make little sensations and say tough things so that they beocme known in the west and western newspapers ask them for interviews. no ingush will want to separate from russia, noone is separateing from something that feeds u. they receive maybe 90% of their budget from moscow, they have nothing except mountain rocks and they r integtared into russia as much as any others.

evloev wasn't anti-kremlin, he was anti-zyazikov, but he was supporting zyazilov in his presidential campaign/ what happended between them to become enemies? maybe they simply didn't divide something, don't know.

if russia is strong economically, politically, military - noone will even think of separation. no matter how many idiots give interviews to some newspapares.

tatarstan is different. their shaimiev in early 1990-ies was dreaming of being president of independent tatarstan but now is not early 1990-eas and he is not dealing with yeltsin.

what i think is dangerous for russia and should be stopped is huge clerical turn in russia bith orthodoax and muslim.

[Lucker]

Mister Smutty
I took the trouble to read your original Post and found it interesting and re-assuring as I was feeling quite isolated in my opinion at the time .
Have you read Honey's find ?
It does not add to the basic point but it gives chapter and verse and seems very impressive and , for what it is worth , is in line with other reports and snippets .
It is always gratifying to think that you are actually peeling away the onion skin layers .

[Lucker]

Jurassic ,
Keep cool .
It is often possible to be too close to something to be able to see the important matters .
Read Honey's find first , if you have not done so already .
Breathe deeply and reflect first of all before making any quick impulsive judgements .
Remember , this discussion is not personal . Always try and see " both sides of the coin "
Excuse my preaching but it would be nice to chat usefully and without bitterness -- not that we have anything but love between us !!!

Unfortunately my French is basic and rusty . The man we need is the Charming Enjoyourself but he seems to have slipped off radar for the minute .
Write to him . He will be delighted to help and send him my regards

[kentuckydan]

ingush demand independence? don't make me laugh. there r a few people who want to make little sensations and say tough things so that they beocme known in the west .

South Ossetia, with a population of 70000

Ingushetia Population: 467,294

Yep with that small a population not even a half million the very idea of them
being an independent nation is ludicrous

[dzerassa]

South Ossetia, with a population of 70000

Ingushetia Population: 467,294

Yep with that small a population not even a half million the very idea of them
being an independent nation is ludicrous


u give data of ingushetia population together with chechens who were living there after the war, i guess so at least. even though, the main this is not that ingushetia being one town and several villages, can't be independent 'cause of population. they have no economic grounds to be such, they have no political grounds - it is just some games of some people. i understand your disappointment, u must like very much someone to be willing to separate from russia. but believe me, ingushetia has no such claims and can't have, they simply don't like their leader and not all of them but those opposing him.

as for south ossetia, they have russia and north ossetia as economic and political support

[alenika]

Before the Georgians began their major move into South Ossetia ( after midnight ) , Russians had destroyed Avnevi and Tamarasheni and Prisi came under heavy fire . it's completely not true :-) You have good imagination :-) This is how Russia gets it's reputation I guess - from people with similar rich imagination.

But what is true that Saakashvili sent requests about assistance against agressive Russia killing poor Georgia even before he attacked SO. That is, it's not true, it's what I read in some western source. I don't know of this personally. But what about Tamarasheni - I know from witnesses.

[alenika]

I still wonder why NATO supports agression of Georgia towards own population in SO.

I don't say that we should be attacked or something. But why NATO at least doesn't say that it was wrong and that it was a crime to do so and openly judge Saakashvili for this crime and they don't support this way of solving problems? I know that Saakashvili will be changed later and quietly, but why to show they support that agression? Maybe because it is normal policy of NATO towards something they want and who cannot protect themselves? Why our bosses (don't want to name the country not to start anti-country arguments) didn't push Saakashvili to find peaceful decision of this problem with two regions - while peaceful decision was possible and available? maybe because it is becoming normal way to solve any problem with some country who is weaker? because stronger countries do the same?

If to compare what Russia did to Georgia it's nothing - 3 buildings damaged in Gori, only military objects bombed (taking in account that Georgia shown it's militaristic attitude it was reasonable to make it rid from weapons we had), no peaceful people were involved. And this is in times when it is a norm to attack peaceful people in the world, to bomb them, to bomb refugees, to attack other countries and take control over them completely.

Russia made it's mistakes (for example taking chechens and cassacks to Georgia which caused looting), but if to compare with what is a norm in the world it did nothing while it could which shows that their intentions were not agressive. And yes, if Russia took Tbilisi, I'd speak differently. But they didn't take.

I witness the same unexplained attitude in some good and close to me people too. They just hate Russia and think that any action it does can be only for bad, with some scary undercover plans.

Now someone will start to talk about journalists killed in Russia and democracy... As if crime doesn't exist in other countries.

[Umka]

Dear Alenika, I'd love to believe you, but, you see, I'm sure what you're saying is just Commie propaganda, and, anyways, if it isn't there's sure some explanation to that, but it is propaganda anyway.
You are only an intelligent, realist person who knows what's going on and LIVES in Georgia.
When Rahmon and Kenplucky living in their countries, and having a lot of energy, of COURSE know better and of course know, unlike you, the poor little silly naive girl, they KNOW the truth. They'll find explanation to everything.

Wake up, little girl! So sorry, open-minded just simply doesn't work, give up believing your sense organs, stop believing your eyes, ears and brain and accept, finally, what the truth-tellesr like rahmon , kenpluckydan inc. are saying. As soon as you see that 2 and 2 is 5, will come to you happiness and you can return to us, not dangerous for the society any more.

Amen! Heil the great Enquisitor!


:hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail:
I'm late to my "every muslim you know is planning to kill your family" and "a woman should be barefoot and pregnant" lections:eek:. Gotta run!

[dzerassa]

it's completely not true :-) You have good imagination :-) This is how Russia gets it's reputation I guess - from people with similar rich imagination.

But what is true that Saakashvili sent requests about assistance against agressive Russia killing poor Georgia even before he attacked SO. That is, it's not true, it's what I read in some western source. I don't know of this personally. But what about Tamarasheni - I know from witnesses.

georgian villages had georgian soldiers in them brought there under reason of police., or maybe they were police this is don't know but they had no right to be there, they were there and they r not civilians, they r soldiers. most of the civilians left before it started from the georgian villages, most but not all i guess.
why they don't say how many of georgian civilians were killed in georgian villages from this "bombings"? there r no, all actions started there after 9th when russian troops entered south ossetia and when tshinval was free from georgians

[dzerassa]

Before the Georgians began their major move into South Ossetia ( after midnight ) , Russians had destroyed Avnevi and Tamarasheni and Prisi came under heavy fire .

It is amazing

it was all quiet there, no even shootings before saaskhvili's move

[Umka]

Wow
I am very impressed . I have opened it but only read the front page and contents .
I was so excited:freako: I had to go and make a cup of tea. ...
...Thanks

Try sex!:freako: You'll be SHOCKED!

[beezneesman]

Dear Alenika, I'd love to believe you, but, you see, I'm sure what you're saying is just Commie propaganda, and, anyways, if it isn't there's sure some explanation to that, but it is propaganda anyway.
You are only an intelligent, realist person who knows what's going on and LIVES in Georgia.
When Rahmon and Kenplucky living in their countries, and having a lot of energy, of COURSE know better and of course know, unlike you, the poor little silly naive girl, they KNOW the truth. They'll find explanation to everything.

Wake up, little girl! So sorry, open-minded just simply doesn't work, give up believing your sense organs, stop believing your eyes, ears and brain and accept, finally, what the truth-tellesr like rahmon , kenpluckydan inc. are saying. As soon as you see that 2 and 2 is 5, will come to you happiness and you can return to us, not dangerous for the society any more.

Amen! Heil the great Enquisitor!


:hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail:
I'm late to my "every muslim you know is planning to kill your family" and "a woman should be barefoot and pregnant" lections:eek:. Gotta run!

Ha ha :)

At least one of you commies has got a sense of humour :)

[dzerassa]

can capitalists understand humour ? :)

[Lucker]

Look at you silly girls .
Trying to write funny Posts
Trying to be clever
In front of you there lies an easy to read statement from the Georgian government and not one of you has the sense or good manners to look at it first before coming up with Posts that make you look silly .And to put it bluntly , very poorly educated .

I thought you might have learned something about discussion and communication in those last days of the old Forum .

[dzerassa]

I thought you might have learned something about discussion and communication in those last days of the old Forum .

we did and we continue to learn here :)

ramon do u know that u won a contest in LL ? comgatulations :)

[Sveta's Hero]

we did and we continue to learn here :)

ramon do u know that u won a contest in LL ? comgatulations :)


I won the contest! I nominated Ramon as the person who has recieved the most TD's:becky::lol:

[dzerassa]

I won the contest! I nominated Ramon as the person who has recieved the most TD's:becky::lol:

u r trying to steal from ramon his deserved victory :)

[Sveta's Hero]

u r trying to steal from ramon his deserved victory :)


Steal? Of course not! I am the one who posted Ramon in the contest, but he does deserve all the credit for getting the TD's.
:eyebrows: :becky:

[Lucker]

A Winner ---For speaking my mind , but --- and I stand to be corrected -- never being personally abusive , though one or two blokes would have been flattened by me in real life .
The women I would have staked in a public place and pelted them with rotten vegetables and fruit .
In fact I will happily pay good money to do just that to a certain few . Not because they are argumentative -- that's fine -- but because they are smug , prim and sanctimonious . I hate self righteous , vain women .

[beezneesman]

:A Winner ---For speaking my mind , but --- and I stand to be corrected -- never being personally abusive , though one or two blokes would have been flattened by me in real life .
The women I would have staked in a public place and pelted them with rotten vegetables and fruit .
In fact I will happily pay good money to do just that to a certain few . Not because they are argumentative -- that's fine -- but because they are smug , prim and sanctimonious . I hate self righteous , vain women .

Ok you throw the fruit at them. I will clean up the mess afterwards - with my tongue ;)

The prospect of that should make your persecutors severely ill :)

[huney]

Roman - check for Private Message please

[alenika]

In front of you there lies an easy to read statement from the Georgian government and not one of you has the sense or good manners to look at it first before coming up with I read and heard many more statements from Georgian government than you can imagine. They don't become more truthful because of this.
And why you say nothing about Nato reaction?

[Lucker]

"not a word"?????
You need help, Ramon. I was in Nice and all channels we had in our hotel were talking about that.
Russian channels in russian and Russian channels in English.

No one questions that Russians chat incessantly .
It is the lack of quality that annoys .
We want the right questions posed , the tricky and uncomfortable ones .
We do not want endless answers to questions which were never asked in the first place .
We want answers backed by verifiable sources and independent verification .
We do not want disinformation .
Not one of you has read http://www.sos-georgia.it/documenti/...26-08-2008.doc (http://www.sos-georgia.it/documenti/info%20georgia-War%20Timetable-26-08-2008.doc)
If you had , we would not be having this conversation .
And , as far as I am concerned , you will not read it because you are gutless and scared and because it would make you face a very difficult situation if you were strong enough to remain honest to yourself .
Not to me . Not for me .
For yourself .
Individually , I am sad to say , Russians are gutless and have become servile .That's what I and many others see and , regretfully , believe .

[dzerassa]

Not one of you has read http://www.sos-georgia.it/documenti/...26-08-2008.doc (http://www.sos-georgia.it/documenti/info%20georgia-War%20Timetable-26-08-2008.doc)
If you had , we would not be having this conversation .

i had read it. do u still want to have conversation?

[dzerassa]

"Georgian peace proposals repeatedly rejected by Russia (2004 onwards): Beginning in 2004, the Georgian Government has repeatedly proposed to launch a genuine peace process for South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Years of stalemate had left all ethnic populations in both conflict zones impoverished and without any effective protection of basic rights; Georgians in particular were targeted and persecuted on ethnic grounds. The Russian Federation and separatist leaders have rejected Georgia’s peace initiatives each and every time they have been proposed—even when the international community backed the initiatives. As a result, South Ossetia and Abkhazia have become hubs for acute criminal activity, including kidnapping, extortion, counterfeiting, smuggling of arms and drugs. At least one case of nuclear smuggling has been confirmed (Annex 1)."


it's a first clause from it. let me comment.

"Georgian peace proposals repeatedly rejected by Russia (2004 onwards): Beginning in 2004, the Georgian Government has repeatedly proposed to launch a genuine peace process for South Ossetia and Abkhazia. ".

This is just common words. What is real Georgia was always rejecting to sign a traty of not using arms to solve this conflict. If u read interbiew with former minister of defence of georgia u would understand why i advised to read it. Translate it from russian which i posted.

"Years of stalemate had left all ethnic populations in both conflict zones impoverished and without any effective protection of basic rights;"

True. Saakshvili was the one who closed market between south ossetia and georgia where all peasants were selling their products. both ossetians and georgians were having profit from it.

"Georgians in particular were targeted and persecuted on ethnic grounds."

It's not true. georgians were free to travel everywhere in south ossetia, they were selling their milk products every morning in tshinval for example, etc. they had their villages not touched by ossetians from the first war. Note, that ossetians after the firts war could do what abhazians did: simply send out all georgians, but they didn't do it. they let georgians live in south ossetia.

"As a result, South Ossetia and Abkhazia have become hubs for acute criminal activity, including kidnapping, extortion, counterfeiting, smuggling of arms and drugs."

Complete lie, i never heard any case of kidnapping in or into south ossetia, also it is not the place where drugs come from. as for arms, ossetians could protect themselves only with kalashnikov and some easy weapons. they don't have anything to fight against jets, btr, tanks etc.

as for abhazia, it is even more ridiculous.

the rest i will maybe comment later

[dzerassa]

and ramon, since when u believe state propaganda, even if it comes from georgia ?

[Lucker]

If you have read it , it seems you were very quick for it is a very long document .
It is genuine .I have been talking to the Georgiasn embassy in London this morning .
If you wish to discuss it publicly I make only one request .
Namely , that any statements you make are supported independently by Human Rights Bodies that are respected Internationally or that there is some support that is more than" I do not agree" or " That is not what was on our TV"
I think that is fair and reasonable because from our point of view none of the Russian official statements have stood up to investigation and simple denial is not a way to plead for innocence .
As you can see , the Russian Government stands accused of the worst possible war crimes and the complete violation of Human Rights . These are the most serious possible accusations it is possible to make and they are not just made by first hand witness reports . They are supported throughout by independent and world respected and accepted bodies .
Your task is difficult .

[dzerassa]

If you have read it , it seems you were very quick for it is a very long document .
I.

i read first clause which i commented

[Lucker]

You have already made an inflammatory remark before I posted .
This document would be incredibly interesting if it was only the opinion of Georgia .
But this is a document independently supported by hundreds of witness statements and by bodies and organisations which I have already outlined .
To claim it is propaganda is dishonest and intellectually cheap .
If that is your approach , forget any discussion . Drop the subject completely .

[dzerassa]

or that there is some support that is more than" I do not agree" or " That is not what was on our TV" .

listen, u know what ossetia is?

u sneeze in one part of it and in a few hours there won't be a person who didn't say "bless u". People here know more than u may read in any report. i can easily see a lie in this doucment. tell me one name of a person kidnapped into south ossetia? there is no one fact in the oart i read just common words, just their ideas

[dzerassa]

If that is your approach , forget any discussion . Drop the subject completely .

ramon, u r wrong if u think i ever follow somebody's orders

[sunontheway]

Нон, не утомилась еще? :) Оставь его наедине со своими мыслями, не видишь что ли что он тебя специально провоцирует. Вся это пустая болтовня утомительна.




================================================== ========
Request - Please post in the same language the threads are created in. - Moderator

[vitashenka]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[beezneesman]

So MacFatum what's all this about being polite? Who have you been rude to?

[dzerassa]

Нон, не утомилась еще? :) Оставь его наедине со своими мыслями, не видишь что ли что он тебя специально провоцирует. Вся это пустая болтовня утомительна.

и то верно :)

[dzerassa]

:

Ok you throw the fruit at them. I will clean up the mess afterwards - with my tongue ;)



another weird fantasy ? :)

[beezneesman]

another weird fantasy ? :)

Aren't the best ones always weird?

[IrmaMos]

Ok you throw the fruit at them. I will clean up the mess afterwards - with my tongue

Aren't the best ones always weird?


Boy, you sound so erotic!

Georgia now is in the same situation...lots of talks and no proves...Im waiting when the world loses interest given to this dramatic accident

have you seen new session about Georgia in Playboy?

[dzerassa]

Boy, you sound so erotic!

..


ah, so it's not only me who finds him to be such :)

[beezneesman]

ah, so it's not only me who finds him to be such :)

Steady on girls all this breathless enthusiasm can go to a guy's head you know!
;)

[dzerassa]

Aren't the best ones always weird?

the best ones r those the best done

[IrmaMos]

ah, so it's not only me who finds him to be such :)

but did he ever give u any proves?

all this" can lick the fruits ...with my tonque", can be just a propaganda trick

[dzerassa]

Steady on girls all this breathless enthusiasm can go to a guy's head you know!
;)

probably that's our intention u know :)

[dzerassa]

but did he ever give u any proves?

all this" can lick the fruits ...with my tonque", can be just a propaganda trick

what else to expect from a cold blood englishman, just propaganda :)

[beezneesman]

probably that's our intention u know :)

Ah yes the old well-tried 'honeytrap' method ;) I am sure Ramon will fall for it but not me!:becky:

[dzerassa]

Ah yes the old well-tried 'honeytrap' method ;) I am sure Ramon will fall for it but not me!:becky:

do u mean u r so good in avoiding honeytraps of girls? don't like honeytraps or don't like girls? :)

[IrmaMos]

Ah yes the old well-tried 'honeytrap' method ;) I am sure Ramon will fall for it but not me!:becky:


Ramon? Is that a guy who says he wants to lead Jurassic male population here? What will u dop if admin allows him? What if he ( if he is so easy falling into honey things) decides you all must lick the fruits ro prove the point?


Men, you dont know where you go

[dzerassa]

Men, you dont know where you go


If it were the only thing they don't know.
remember u asked about proofs? how they can proof something they don't know :)

[beezneesman]

do u mean u r so good in avoiding honeytraps of girls? don't like honeytraps or don't like girls? :)

Just good at spotting the cleverly seductive tricks of the opposition darling that's all ;)

[dzerassa]

Just good at spotting the cleverly seductive tricks of the opposition darling that's all ;)

"opposition" ! Ah, some men r too much into politics

[Lucker]

What exactly is going on here ?
Jurassic , you promised to send me all your Posts for checking and editing .
Admin will not be pleased if I don't follow my new duties with attention and care .
I made it absolutely clear that I don't enjoy smacking a woman's bare bottom but I have never shirked my duty .
It may be irrelevant , but I quite like Thongs

[dzerassa]

You forgot to mention the road the peace-keepers were taking to enter S.O., that's been renovated about a month prior to the beginning of military action.

how did i miss this remark :)

what do u call rennovation! those spanish tiles on the walls, wooden floors from oak tree and some rock-crystal chandeliers? that's a minimum which every decent tunnel should have, besides we took everything with good discount :)

[dzerassa]

What exactly is going on here ?
Jurassic , you promised to send me all your Posts for checking and editing .


after u find keys from Vladi :)

[Lucker]

Seeing there was a glimmer of sense in your brain for half a second . And what about all the rail engineers send down from Russia into Abkhasia ?
Three hundred to be precise . They put new track in and then requisitioned every container for moving equipment .There was a total container shortage for a month before the war .
What an amazing coincidence .
And its no wonder they had to put new toilets into the Roki Pass McDonalds . Suddenly there were 8000 Russian volunteer soldiers out on nature trails a week before the Russians started cleansing the Georgian villages .
What a remarkable series of coincidences .
Probably I overlooked the fact that there is always a Roki Pass Rock Festival in the first week of August .
Top of the bill this year were the Roasted Georgians

[alenika]

And what about all the rail engineers send down from Russia into Abkhasia ?
Three hundred to be precise . dzerassa, ramon was standing there and counting :becky:

[Gabbibo]

few days ago i was in Ukraine, i wached the russian and ukrainean news

few ukrainean journalists send their reports from Georgia, they could make a "hot" reportage

for all 3 days on russian TV i could see how saakashvili eats his rot tie and how bad are georgians
is dissgusting to have such an ....anti nation news

also i read an interview mit Vachtang Kikabidze, he said he cant have a concert in Russia because of this stupid war:(

[alenika]

few days ago i was in Ukraine, i wached the russian and ukrainean news That's why I don't watch new :(

[vitashenka]

few days ago i was in Ukraine, i wached the russian and ukrainean news

few ukrainean journalists send their reports from Georgia, they could make a "hot" reportage

for all 3 days on russian TV i could see how saakashvili eats his rot tie and how bad are georgians
is dissgusting to have such an ....anti nation news

also i read an interview mit Vachtang Kikabidze, he said he cant have a concert in Russia because of this stupid war:(


Maybe you are right Diana, but exactly the same anti nation news, as u said befor we are heare from another's smi. Conserning saakashvilly who ate his tie, i really didnt see it already long weeks. In russian news now it isnt discussed much already

[sunontheway]

for all 3 days on russian TV i could see how saakashvili eats his rot tie and how bad are georgians


Are you sure you watched Russian TV? My TV works all evenings, switching channels for news. Chewing his tie was shown just couple of times in the middle of August. I must say for the whole period no bad word (offensive) was said about Georgians; they present news in a neutral professional way and I am very glad about it.

The strongest saying I can recall was when after all this mess Medvedev called Saakashvili "a political cadaver" :lol:

If saying "how bad are georgians" you mean recognition of the fact that Georgian government started this war, well... then of course you are right, but this is not a secret for the whole world.

[Gabbibo]

Are you sure you watched .



my head is healthy and i am sure what i saw:becky:

this was on Россия TV before Sarkozy came in Moscow

[RiverRock]

ontheway: If saying "how bad are georgians" you mean recognition of the fact that Georgian government started this war, well... then of course you are right, but this is not a secret for the whole world.

It is a secret for the whole rest of the world.

"What remains unclear is which one of them moved first. Russia contends that on the night the war began, Aug. 7, they were simply responding to a Georgian attack on the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali and the threat to the lives of Russian and Ossetian civilians there. But that scenario does not explain the widely documented buildup since the spring of Russian forces just across the border from South Ossetia, which made it possible for up to 150 tanks to cross into South Ossetia within hours of the Russian order to attack.

Russian officials initially claimed that up to 2,000 civilians died in South Ossetia on Aug. 7 before Russian troops arrived on the scene. That estimate has since been reduced — by Russia — to 133, which is well short of anyone's definition of a "genocide" that would justify a rapid foreign intervention. Representatives of Human Rights Watch, who visited all four hospitals in the region shortly after the battle, say the organization has proof of only 44 deaths that night.

Yet Georgia's claim that Russia started the war is not completely convincing either. In an interview with TIME, Saakashvili said he ordered his troops to attack the South Ossetian city of Tskhinvali only after Russia launched its invasion into Georgian territory; his professed aim was to slow Russia's advance by 48 hours in order to give the international community time to act. But on the night of Aug. 7, and for three to four days afterward, Georgian officials did not say that Russia had launched its invasion first but only that their forces were responding to stepped-up attacks by 120-mm mortars from Russian-backed South Ossetian forces on Georgian positions.

There may be a kernel of truth to both sides. Saakashvili may have thought that his forces could stamp out the South Ossetian defense force in one swift strike without provoking a Russian response; indeed, a mistaken belief that Western allies could intervene diplomatically to restrain Russia might have encouraged him in that calculation.

For its part, Russia could well have sought to provoke Georgia into such a response (by urging the South Ossetians to step up attacks on Georgian positions) in order to provide them with a pretext to invade. "

Time Magazine

[sunontheway]

That's a fair post RiverRock.

I am not trying to protect our government, I just simply see no enough motives for such wild actions. And the fact that foreign journalists were invited to Tbilisi in advance and immediate blocking access to Russian mass media for Georgian people actually makes to believe in a well planned piar company.

I wish both official representatives could pass the test on a lie-detector.

[bryangriffiths]

There is not a government ot offical that would do that and ya know it

[dzerassa]

dzerassa, ramon was standing there and counting :becky:

truly i don't quite understand. how is railroad in abhazia connected to war in south ossetia?
and what was he saying about cleansing? he must have meant cleaning as it is well known that the rockskiy tunnel is the most rennovated and the most clean :)

[dzerassa]

few days ago i was in Ukraine, i wached the russian and ukrainean news

few ukrainean journalists send their reports from Georgia, they could make a "hot" reportage

for all 3 days on russian TV i could see how saakashvili eats his rot tie and how bad are georgians
is dissgusting to have such an ....anti nation news

also i read an interview mit Vachtang Kikabidze, he said he cant have a concert in Russia because of this stupid war:(

hi diana! we missed u :)

did u read what kikabidze say that someone has to put end to russia or something like that? i think not many russians will come to his concert.

[dzerassa]

few ukrainean journalists send their reports from Georgia, they could make a "hot" reportage

(

what about to send from soouth ossetia? it was "hotter" there

[dzerassa]

It is a secret for the whole rest of the world.

"What remains unclear is which one of them moved first. Russia contends that on the night the war began, Aug. 7, they were simply responding to a Georgian attack on the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali and the threat to the lives of Russian and Ossetian civilians there. But that scenario does not explain the widely documented buildup since the spring of Russian forces just across the border from South Ossetia, which made it possible for up to 150 tanks to cross into South Ossetia within hours of the Russian order to attack.

Time Magazine

look, it was clear for everyone and was very much knows and said many tims that georgia brings its troops to south ossetian borders. was known that they brought their "police" into georgian villages in south ossetia, they build a huge military base in gori which is 20 minutes from tshinaval. just consider these facts as well. it was clear that saakshvili is going to do something about south ossetia after 2004 when he already was close to it. after former minister of defence became opponent to saakshvili he that in 2004 they planned military action in south ossetia but last moment saaksvili changed his mind. now read his interview to the french paper which i posted. he clearly says what plans they had. now read interview of one georgian politician, i think either minister of internal affiars or of defence to an english newspaper where he says they they simply didn't expect that russia will take military response to their actions.

as for russian troops at south ossetia border, it is north ossetia and it is part of russia and it has state border and russian army has always been located here.

and i told u already really russian tanks came in tshinval on 9th

[dzerassa]

Russian officials initially claimed that up to 2,000 civilians died in South Ossetia on Aug. 7 before Russian troops arrived on the scene. That estimate has since been reduced — by Russia — to 133, which is well short of anyone's definition of a "genocide" that would justify a rapid foreign intervention. Representatives of Human Rights Watch, who visited all four hospitals in the region shortly after the battle, say the organization has proof of only 44 deaths that night.on.

Time Magazine

u know, here is link where u can see names of 365 people died
http://www.ossetia-war.com/dvlist

the list is not full, u know why? many people disappeared. they can't be found and u know what it means when people go in the car and the car is shot and burned? it means peole can't be found. many people were buried in the gardens, roads, forests just where they died. as i read from humans rights wacth they visited hospital in tshinval which was sevearly damaged and where of course nobody was bringning wounded or especailly dead people from other villages. now do u understand what it means grad firing in the night on the town? small town densely populated sleeping in the night? i don't remember name of the guy but i posted his interview on this forum, he is from eu i guess i will find his name and tell u. so he said that the number of dead is more than said by humans rights wacth

[dzerassa]

and again please when u talk about any conflict make sure u didn't confuse them.

and by the way what was name of that nogressman of republican party who recently clealy said in congress that it he had many talks with american intelligent services and all their proofs r that georgians started and russia responded.

it is amazing how americans try to defend someone who fired with grad, shot from tanks a city and now say they will restore their military potential. can your country stay away at least from some area on this earth?

[alenika]

hi diana! we missed u :)

did u read what kikabidze say that someone has to put end to russia or something like that? i think not many russians will come to his concert. Kikabidze is emotional person, this is well-known. This means he makes decision based on emotions, not logic and facts. As otherwise they'd have to admit that behaved agressive (wanting to return territories by means of war having other ways) and cowardly (as together with bobming someone who is weaker, they started to fight right away with words against someone who is stronger).

Btw this is usual tactics here even in streets fight. It is common here to shout a lot before fight during disagreement waiting when someone else will interfere before even fight begins (usually this is women - who are entering between men in fight and calming them down). And men then continue to shout even louder, making more insulting claims and show they want to fight but cannot as women hinder. The most important is to be very loud.

It's not common though to hit those who is weaker. It's already innovation of our president. Maybe this is result of study of international relationships.

[RiverRock]

dzerassa: u know, here is link where u can see names of 365 people died
http://www.ossetia-war.com/dvlist


It says that list is including the time between the 7th and 12th of August 2008. Which would include after the Russian army came to keep the peace. The article was only talking about the night of the 7th which is Russia's pretext for invasion of Georgia.

[RiverRock]

dzerassa: it was clear that saakshvili is going to do something about south ossetia after 2004 when he already was close to it. after former minister of defence became opponent to saakshvili he that in 2004 they planned military action in south ossetia but last moment saaksvili changed his mind.

It was also clear even before that, that Russia was looking for a reason to invade/punish Georgia. The reasons why Russia wanted this have been stated in other posts.


Video of Ron Paul from 2002

ya6JfFK_lYQ

[dzerassa]

It says that list is including the time between the 7th and 12th of August 2008. Which would include after the Russian army came to keep the peace. The article was only talking about the night of the 7th which is Russia's pretext for invasion of Georgia.

people died mainly on 7th and 8th, later they were dieing from woulds received first two days. if russia didn't come would be much more. numbers u say r not true, sorry

[Lucker]

You are right ,Jurassic .
Russias clear cut invasion of South Ossetia was unforgivasble , the more so because of the careful pre-planning which the rest of the world has seen exposed .
How do you think they will handle their move into Crimea ?

[dzerassa]

You are right ,Jurassic .
Russias clear cut invasion of South Ossetia was unforgivasble , the more so because of the careful pre-planning which the rest of the world has seen exposed .
How do you think they will handle their move into Crimea ?

Please ramonrive, when u joke about south ossetia remember that for ossetians it is a pain. try to understand that ossetians have the same right to be on this earth as english, and russia guaranteed us this right. before we had been twice genocide by georgians

[Lucker]

Jurassic my little spider !!
It is a shame that all those independent World based organiations for Human Rights tell the same shocking lies .

Get real , naughty little spider .
Russia's stories have been found out by everybody .
There was no genocide committed by Georgians and not one shred of evidence outside of Russian disinformation that says otherwise .
Not one shred of evidence

But there are hundreds and hundreds of pages that Russia did -- and just as bad by renegade South Ossetians and Chechnyan's employed by the Russian army in Georgia .In fairness , the behaviour of the Russian army itself in Georgia has been reported as disciplined and OK .

But let's drop the subject .
Write to me in a few years when grudgingly you begin to see how you were hoodwinked from start to finish .
If you have friends in Sebastopol , tell them to sell up . Quickly .

[dzerassa]

If you have friends in Sebastopol , tell them to sell up . Quickly .

i have friends in UK and i will tell them to sell up. Quickly.

[dzerassa]

how to translate big text from russian into english? is there any option?

[Lucker]

i have friends in UK and i will tell them to sell up. Quickly.


If you think that you will get entry , think again .
I will have your card marked .

[RiverRock]

http://translate.google.com/translate_t?sl=ru&tl=en#

You can use google,and then go back yourself and re-write the words that do not make sense.

[IrmaMos]

Dressara, its time to send Ramon to Tbilissi , he can advise Mr Saak...men should act...talks are for women. Please, let him go enjoy...dont forget to pack his steal pot for him. We will be waiting for his pictures from the real field...I hope he is ready to invite georgian president to stay in his place when he will be very soon sent by his own goverment away from the country

[dzerassa]

If you think that you will get entry , think again .
.

make sure your friend saakshvili didn't notice russian tanks in tunnel under la manch or he will invade Uk to prevent russian invasion

[dzerassa]

Associated Press: For the words of John McCain "We r Georgians" Saakashvili paid 1 million dollars

Chief Adviser of the U.S. presidential candidate John McCain on international affairs and his business partner Randy Shenemann (Randy Scheunemann) over the past three and a half years has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Government of Georgia, "writes today Associated Press. Agency calls a lobbying deal with the Georgian government, which received 200,000 and 800,000 dollars. In addition, under the mediation of Shenemanna, since 2001, McCain lobbied the U.S. government of Taiwan (500,000 dollars), Macedonia (500,000 dollars), Romania (400.000 dollars), Latvia (250,000 dollars).

Earlier, McCain called for the full review relations with Russia in connection with the latest developments in the Georgian-yugoosetinskogo conflict: "There is a need to consider whether the meaning to remain Russia's Group of Eight - McCain said. He said, it includes a review of U.S. approach to the issue of membership of Russia in the World Trade Organization.

As previously reported news agency REGNUM, yesterday in an address to the nation, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said: "Russia wants to accuse us of genocide, but that no one believed, and now the whole world considers us right. Yesterday, presidential candidate John McCain said he Georgians, and such words, they simply do not speak, 08:37 14.08.2008

[dzerassa]

http://translate.google.com/translate_t?sl=ru&tl=en#

You can use google,and then go back yourself and re-write the words that do not make sense.

thank u brandon

[dzerassa]

Georgia has recognized the use of cluster bombs
16:55 01.09.08

International human rights organization Human Rights Watch alleges that Georgia has recognized the use of its armed forces of cluster bombs during the military operation in South Ossetia.

As the agency Associated Press, in a letter from the Ministry of Defense of Georgia confirmed the use of cluster bombs M85 near Rokskogo tunnel connecting North and South Ossetia. Similar ammunition used by Israel during the war with Hezbollah in southern Lebanon in 2006.

Earlier human rights organization accused of using cluster bombs Russia, but the General Staff of the Armed Forces denied the allegations.

Georgia has recognized the use of cluster bombs
16:55 01.09.08


Earlier human rights organization accused of using cluster bombs Russia, but the General Staff of the Armed Forces denied the allegations.

[dzerassa]

Dressara, its time to send Ramon to Tbilissi , he can advise Mr Saak...men should act...talks are for women.

How can ramon advise it if he himself is just talking? :)

[dzerassa]

29.08.2008 13:32: The number of casualties in South Ossetia exceed data of the international organizations

Said the Council of Europe Commissioner for Human Rights Thomas Hammarberg. According to him, the exact number of victims is impossible to establish - and lost a lot of people still do not know they were killed or hidden.
Hammarberg also called on Russia and Georgia to disclose information on the type and quantity of weapons used during the fighting.

[dzerassa]

From Tbilisi continuing militant statements. One of them made today Envoy of President of Georgia for Conflict Resolution Temuri Yakobashvili.
Temuri Yakobashvili, Special Representative of the President of Georgia on conflict resolution: «Let me clearly state: let no one think that the process of restoring territorial integrity has been completed. This is only the beginning of the return of our territory when we showed the whole world with whom we deal. The issue was raised at yesterday's conversation with Condoleezza Rice.
And no one doubts that we are not dealing with the separatists. This aggression is the occupation. This is not about separatism. Once the occupying forces will leave and we will be on his feet, we switch to another plan of the issue and restore our territory without the separatists ».

Yakobashvili also threatened criminal prosecution of residents of unrecognized republics that have Russian passports, as well as South Ossetian leader Eduard Kokoity, transmits NTV.

15-Y REGION
Permanent URL: http://region15.ru/news/2008/08/16/20-54/

[Lucker]

At last some sound common sense .
There is only one way to treat a bully .