Music festival canceled after UK ban

[Neilikka]

MOSCOW (Combined report: AP, RIA Novosti) - Russia had to postpone the military orchestras festival scheduled for this weekend after British authorities banned 40 bagpipers from attending the event.
The British Foreign Office has decided not to send 40 bagpipers to the Kremlin Reveille festival in Moscow in protest over Russia's actions in Geor¬gia, a foreign office spokesperson has said.
The festival to mark the 325th anniversary of the Russian Imperial Guards was scheduled to take place on September 11-14 in central Moscow.
Military bands from the U.K., Austria, Ireland, Scotland, and Canada have been invited to the event. The Scottish bagpipers were due to leave for Russia on September 8.
A spokesperson for the Foreign Office said on Friday however that the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers would not be able to attend the Kremlin Zorya festival due to the crisis in relations between Russia and the West over the recent war in Georgia. The spokesperson also called the move a demonstration that it's not "business as usual" between Britain and Russia.
The bagpipers have been one of the most popular acts at the festival in recent years.
Brigadier Mel Jameson, former head of the Edinburgh Military Tattoo, helped found the Kremlin Zorya. He said the action "just shows that music apparently does not cross all boundaries."
On Wednesday Russian organizers of the festival said the event would be postponed till the next year. Their decision was motivated by the tense situation in foreign politics which caused foreign orchestras to cancel their visits to Moscow or not to confirm the previously announced participation. Also on Wednesday it was reported that 20 Canadian bagpipers decided not to go to Russia despite previous agreements.
Vitaly Mironov, the Russian director of the Kremlin Reveille foundation has told reporters that he saw the British decision on bagpipers as purely political.

Isn't it ridiculous, childish if not more?

[Neilikka]

There are a few photos from last year Moscow's parade. looked

http://blog.webmoskva.ru/img/pictures/wr_forum/3535404/img_3535404_0.jpg

[Neilikka]

http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/foto/b/2/552/1773552/f_8669728.jpg

[Neilikka]

http://www.msk-guide.ru/img/149/12381.jpg

[Neilikka]

http://blog.webmoskva.ru/img/pictures/wr_forum/3532940/img_3532940_0.jpg

[Hoopy]

This isn't just a pipeband,it's part of the UK's armed forces so they are quite right not to send them.
Here they are just for you Bella.

2xgwRitTgU4

[Neilikka]

http://new.zerkalopress.ru/_preview/521432_400x600.jpg

[krevedko]

The British Foreign Office has decided not to send 40 bagpipers to the Kremlin Reveille festival in Moscow in protest over Russia's actions in Georgia, a foreign office spokesperson has said.

Not a very smart move.
If they wanted to punish us, they should've doubled the quantity of bagpipers instead :becky:

(can't seem to find the smilie with bleeding ears :becky:)

[Lucker]

I am in agreement with Hoppy .
Officially Russia is in very bad odour with us and there would rightly be a national outcry if serving British Troops entered Russia , whatever the reasons .
We were not allowed to help and save the people from being massacred in the Moscow Theatre siege and our crack troops were not bought into save the massacre of the kids in Beslam .
Russia cannot dictate the movement of our boys to suit your mood and convenience .Russia's best policy is to adopt a more diplomatic role within a Rule of Law and pray the Winter Olympics are not taken away from Sochi .

[Lonewolf74]

This isn't just a pipeband,it's part of the UK's armed forces so they are quite right not to send them.
Here they are just for you Bella.

2xgwRitTgU4

I saw some Gurkhas there....do ghurka regiments use bagpipes also???
I must say...a bagpipe and a Kukri its a nice combination...I wonder which is the deadliest ... :lol:

V

[Hoopy]

Those are all Scottish regiments so they must have be assigned to one of them.

[sunontheway]

So British are going to miss the Olympics in Sochi as well?
Reminds me the boycott of the Moscow Olympics in 1980 by Americans as an action to protest the Soviet war in Afghanistan :becky:

Childish is a correct word :lol:

[Lucker]

We should have sent a few Gurkhas into Georgia .
That would have got Boris scuttling back to Mummy pretty quickly .

[Neilikka]

You use the Subjunctive Mood again! If you should have done it , why didn't you do it? Why are crying over a spilt milk?

[Hoopy]

So British are going to miss the Olympics in Sochi as well?
Reminds me the boycott of the Moscow Olympics in 1980 by Americans as an action to protest the Soviet war in Afghanistan :becky:

Childish is a correct word :lol:
And the Russians done what at the 1984 olympics?

[sunontheway]

And the Russians done what at the 1984 olympics?

That was not Russians, that was Sovetics. A big difference :yo:

[Hoopy]

Yes your right,Russia had nothing at all to do with it,they weren't the soviet bloc...how silly of me.

[Calgary1966]

Not a very smart move.
If they wanted to punish us, they should've doubled the quantity of bagpipers instead :becky:

(can't seem to find the smilie with bleeding ears :becky:)


When I was in the military the first person to be shot with the laser on exercise was the piper.:becky:

[sunontheway]

Yes your right,Russia had nothing at all to do with it,they weren't the soviet bloc...how silly of me.

Martin, Russia before the revolution of 1917, during the Sovetic time and after the Cold War are three different systems with people of three different mentalities and ideology. Ideology was a primary important thing in the USSR. You haven't lived here, you will hardly understand it why I separate these periods.

[Hoopy]

Russia boycotted the 1984 olympics,simple as that...who gives a fook about mentalities or idealogies or even what they called themselves then.

[Lucker]

Martin, Russia before the revolution of 1917, during the Sovetic time and after the Cold War are three different systems with people of three different mentalities and ideology. Ideology was a primary important thing in the USSR. You haven't lived here, you will hardly understand it why I separate these periods.

What a load of Gobbledygook .
Tell me when there has been any effective russian social thinking in the last several hundred years that has stood the test of time and I will put on the Dunce's cap
You have been down trodden and taken orders . And you love it .
If I could speak Russian and could come down a huge mountain with a load of inscribed tablets , I could be a God .
Rock on masochism . Ray for Russian Ra

[kentuckydan]

Martin, Russia before the revolution of 1917, during the Sovetic time and after the Cold War are three different systems with people of three different mentalities and ideology. Ideology was a primary important thing in the USSR. You haven't lived here, you will hardly understand it why I separate these periods.


Before the Bolshevik Revolution, Russia had a Totalitarian Leader Called the Tsar, 3 to 4% of the population was the Nobility who ran the Country, the rest did what they were told
or got sent to Siberia, if they were lucky

After the Boshevik Revolution, Russia had a Totalitarian Leader Called the Party Chairman,3 to4 % of the population was the Party Aparatchki who ran the Country the rest did what they were told or got sent to Siberia, if they were lucky

As for the final disposition of the current society, that remains to be seen

[Lucker]

As for the final disposition of the current society, that remains to be seen[/QUOTE]

You are so PC , Mr Smutty .Tell them how it really is ----- absolutely no change at all . They love a brutal system . In love with the victim mentality .
ROFL

[Hoopy]

After the Boshevik Revolution, Russia had a Totalitarian Leader Called the Party Chairman,3 to4 % of the population was the Party Aparatchki who ran the Country the rest did what they were told or got sent to Siberia, if they were lucky

after the communist's they have democracy where 3 to 4% of the population run the democracy and the rest do what they are told or hang themselves accidently,get shot accidently or accidently take poison if they are lucky.

[Lucker]

The question is , How to cull this Forum of the Young Russian Women's Mafia Batallion .

[kentuckydan]

As for the final disposition of the current society, that remains to be seen

You are so PC , Mr Smutty .Tell them how it really is ----- absolutely no change at all . They love a brutal system . In love with the victim mentality .
ROFL[/QUOTE]

I stand by my statement Ramon, Russian society is in flux as a result of it's emergence out of Communism and it has not stabised as yet,

But I will admit the trend is in the direction you point out but I don't think the Rubicon has been totally crossed,.

[kentuckydan]

The question is , How to cull this Forum of the Young Russian Women's Mafia Batallion .

I don't believe in silencing opposing views it can result in lazy thinking at least confrontation keeps one on one's intellectual toes,

It can be boring singing only to the choir

[dzerassa]

Isn't it ridiculous, childish if not more?

this is how their democracy works. they make politics from everything even culture. instead of helping our people find something common which can make us closer they ban participation in a cultural event.
is this democratic? if it was decision of the people themselves i understand but foregin office...

[Hoopy]

this is how their democracy works. they make politics from everything even culture. instead of helping our people find something common which can make us closer they ban participation in a cultural event.
is this democratic? if it was decision of the people themselves i understand but foregin office...
As I've already said this is a unit of the British army and if they were sent to Russia under the current climate then there would be a public outcry against it.

[dzerassa]

Before the Bolshevik Revolution, Russia had a Totalitarian Leader Called the Tsar, 3 to 4% of the population was the Nobility who ran the Country, the rest did what they were told
or got sent to Siberia, if they were lucky

After the Boshevik Revolution, Russia had a Totalitarian Leader Called the Party Chairman,3 to4 % of the population was the Party Aparatchki who ran the Country the rest did what they were told or got sent to Siberia, if they were lucky

As for the final disposition of the current society, that remains to be seen


how did russia manage to survive!!! without having all benefits of the western democracy

[dzerassa]

As I've already said this is a unit of the British army and if they were sent to Russia under the current climate then there would be a public outcry against it.

but hoopy, isn't it a cultural event? they were not supposed to paricipate in any conflict, were they? it's a matter of attitude how u look at it. if u want to make two countries closer u find ways to do it, if not - then u ban cultural thins under any excuses

[beezneesman]

I saw some Gurkhas there....do ghurka regiments use bagpipes also???
I must say...a bagpipe and a Kukri its a nice combination...I wonder which is the deadliest ... :lol:

V

I never served with the Gurkhas but I think they do have pipers (maybe its something to do with them also being 'Highlanders').
AFAIK the Indian and Pakistani armies also have pipers

[dzerassa]

Yes your right,Russia had nothing at all to do with it,they weren't the soviet bloc...how silly of me.

it was a silly thing from both sides: from americans in 1980 and from us in 1984.
as far as i remember the whole idea of olimpic games in ancient greece was to stop wars during the games. enemies were competeing with each other during the games. as i said already we should find ways to necome closer even when politics of our country differs.

[Hoopy]

It's a unit of the British army,they are accountable to politicians who in turn are accountable to the people so for them to send them to Russia for a cultural thing or not would be a big mistake.There are very few people in the UK who don't disapprove of Russia's actions.

[kentuckydan]

how did russia manage to survive!!! without having all benefits of the western democracy

Well dear about 62 million of them did not survive Marxism

Lethal Politics: Soviet
Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1917 (http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM)

[dzerassa]

It's a unit of the British army,they are accountable to politicians who in turn are accountable to the people so for them to send them to Russia for a cultural thing or not would be a big mistake.There are very few people in the UK who don't disapprove of Russia's actions.

i might be misunderstanding something. if it were not part of army then it was ok?

simply we in our army also have a regiment, say, which sings and dances. i wouldn't mind it to go to uk even when nato bombed belgrade.

so the whole thing is just 'cause they r part of army? it means we may not expect someone else to be banned to come to russia by your foreign ministry?

[dzerassa]

Well dear about 62 million of them did not survive Marxism

Lethal Politics: Soviet
Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1917 (http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM)

dan, i have already discussed statistics with u before, i would not go into this again. to any statisctis u find i can provide what i find. statistics is just a part of propaganda, any propaganda.

[Hoopy]

Our foriegn office do not have the power to stop civilians travelling without a court order and courts here would not issue such an order but I doubt if you'd get any pipeband that would have wanted to attend anyway.

[kentuckydan]

dan, i have already discussed statistics with u before, i would not go into this again. to any statisctis u find i can provide what i find. statistics is just a part of propaganda, any propaganda.

Democide on Hawaii EDU (educational domain University of Hawaii) is a well respected academic source of information,

Statistics is the science that deals with the collection, classification, analysis, and interpretation of numerical facts or data, and that, by use of mathematical theories of probability, imposes order and regularity on aggregates of more or less disparate elements.

This is a compilation of Historical Record, So why don't you present us with YOUR sources of the Historical Record of Democide under the Soviet Regime?

I take it your claim is that it was not about 62 Million? What figure do you think is more accurate?:haveasmoke:

[Lucker]

Jurassic
Even Russians accepted these figures until quite recently .
One of the problems is that Putin's adoration of Stalin has contributed to a cult personality revival and it has been widely noted that modern History has been completely re written for school's study .So , many facts have suddenly needed to be re-written
When I used the term Fascist to describe the modern State , I was not setting out to be rude or contraversial . It is just a tragic fact , just as the 60 million figure also is .

[dzerassa]

Jurassic
Even Russians accepted these figures until quite recently .
One of the problems is that Putin's adoration of Stalin has contributed to a cult personality revival and it has been widely noted that modern History has been completely re written for school's study .So , many facts have suddenly needed to be re-written
When I used the term Fascist to describe the modern State , I was not setting out to be rude or contraversial . It is just a tragic fact , just as the 60 million figure also is .

look, i went to the link given by dan. too complicated to read. briefly just where this 60 mln come from?

[sunontheway]

The question is , How to cull this Forum of the Young Russian Women's Mafia Batallion .

Great Ramon, you finally said it you wanted a unipolar forum :yo: Register www.ramongabber.co.uk and be happy, we promise not to visit it :becky:

Dan... agree :yo:

[Lucker]

Jurassic
Your last Post is very naughty and it is so bad that you will attend Detention tomorrow evening for one hour as punishment .
Many of the Forum disputes revolve around disputed Facts .
Here is one matter which is as near Factual as possible and therefore verifiable by Dan , You , Me and everybody .
I am not suggesting that you do it now or even today but you ought to personally check out the reference some time soon and examine the Data sources .
So many discussions evolve from facts like this .
It seems to many of us that we bend over backwards to get the most accurate and independly verified facts and figures . And all we ask is that you ( plural) do the same and disclose dara sources where there is disagreement .
Surely that is the friendly approach to help achieve a more solid and productive discussion group .
Asking nicely and not demanding !!!!!!!!

[dzerassa]

guys, don't have any desire to dispute, i tried to find my posts on it in LL but it doesn't work for some reason.

to stop this i will say "60 mln people?" ok fine let it be so. if u say 100 mln people i will answer the same.

just i hope the sources r not the same u take info from on south ossetian- georgian conflict :)

[Lucker]

just i hope the sources r not the same u take info from on south ossetian- georgian conflict :)[/QUOTE]

UR very saucy ?
I apologise for always finding the best SOURCES . I twitch if I am not hunting the truth .
You probably twitch because you are not the full ticket ! ROFL .

[dzerassa]

just i hope the sources r not the same u take info from on south ossetian- georgian conflict :)


I apologise for always finding the best SOURCES . I[/QUOTE]

ok i forgive u :)

[Lucker]

Great Ramon,

Dan... agree :yo:


I should have expected something like that from a Balkan . Sorry , I have just realised you might be Canadian .
To help your English , I have shown you , above , how to professionallly edit a Post




:cool:

[kentuckydan]

look, i went to the link given by dan. too complicated to read. briefly just where this 60 mln come from?

Here are some of the source references

Ambartsumov, Yevgeny. "Remembering the Millions that Stalin Destroyed." MOSCOW NEWS, (July, 1988), p. 12

Andics, Hellmut. RULE OF TERROR. Translated by Alexander Lieven. London: Constable & Co, 1969.

Antonov-Ovseyenko, Anton. THE TIME OF STALIN: PORTRAIT OF A TYRANNY. Translated by Stephen F. Cohen. New York: Harper & Row, 1981

Beck, F. and W. Godin. RUSSIAN PURGE AND THE EXTRACTION OF CONFESSION. Translated by Eric Mosbacher and David Porter. New York: Hurst & Blackett Ltd., 1951.

Bennigsen, Alexandre. "Afghanistan & the Muslims of the USSR." in Rosanne Klass (Ed.), AFGHANISTAN: THE GREAT GAME REVISITED. New York: Freedom House, 1987, pp. 287-299.

Bodansky, Yossef. "Soviet Military Operations in Afghanistan," in Rosanne Klass (Ed.), AFGHANISTAN: THE GREAT GAME REVISITED. New York: Freedom House, 1987, pp. 229-285.

Chyz, Martha. WOMEN AND CHILD IN THE MODERN SYSTEM OF SLAVERY-USSR. Translated by Olha Prychodko. New York: DOBRUS, 1962.

Coutouvidis, John and Jaime Reynolds. POLAND 1939-1947. n.p.: Leicester University Press, 1986.

Costa, Alexandra. "Gorbachev's Russia." Speech at Austin College, Sherman, Texas, 1988.

Dallin, David J. and Boris I. Nicolaevsky. FORCED LABOR IN SOVIET RUSSIA. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1947.

Denikine, General A. THE WHITE ARMY. Translated by Catherine Zvegintzov. Westport, Connecticut: Hyperion Press, 1973.

Deriabin, Peter. WATCHDOGS OF TERROR: RUSSIAN BODYGUARDS FROM THE TSARS TO THE COMMISSARS. New Rochelle, New York: Arlington House, 1972.

Devedjiev, Hristo H. STALINIZATION OF THE BULGARIAN SOCIETY 1949-1953. Philadelphia: Dorrance & Co., 1975.

Dima, Nicholas. BESSARABIA AND BUKOVINA: THE SOVIET-ROMANIAN TERRITORIAL DISPUTE. New York: Columbia University Press, 1982.

Dolot, Miron. EXECUTION BY HUNGER: THE HIDDEN HOLOCAUST. New York: W.W.Norton & Co., 1985.

Dragnich, Alex N. TITO'S PROMISED LAND: YUGOSLAVIA. New Brunswick, Rutgers University Press, 1954.

Dushnyck, Walter. "Human Rights in Communist Ruled East-Central Europe," in Willem Andriaan Veenhoven and Winifred Crum Ewing (Eds.). CASE STUDIES ON HUMAN RIGHTS AND FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS: A WORLD SURVEY. Vol. 1. The Hague: Martinus Nijhoff, 1975, pp. 379-443.

Dushnyck, Walter. 50 YEARS AGO: THE FAMINE HOLOCAUST IN UKRAINE: TERROR AND HUMAN MISERY AS INSTRUMENTS OF SOVIET RUSSIAN IMPERIALISM. New York: World Congress of Free Ukrainians, 1983.

Dyadkin, Iosif G. UNNATURAL DEATHS IN THE USSR, 1928-1954. Translated by Tania Deruguine. New Brunswick, New Jersey: Transaction Books, 1983.

Dziak, John J. CHEKISTY: A HISTORY OF THE KGB. Lexington, Massachusetts: Lexington Books, 1988.

That was A to D and just picking out more of the Eastern Sources

the list ends with

Zawodny, J. K. DEATH IN THE FOREST: THE STORY OF THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE. Notre Dame, Indiana: University of Notre Dame Press, 1962.

Zinsmeister, Karl. "All the Hungry People." REASON, Vol. 20 (June, 1988), pp. 22-30.

Zorin, Libushe. SOVIET PRISONS AND CONCENTRATION CAMPS: AN ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY 1917-1980. Newtonville, Massachusetts: Oriental Research Partners, 1980. 

[Lonewolf74]

I never served with the Gurkhas but I think they do have pipers (maybe its something to do with them also being 'Highlanders').
AFAIK the Indian and Pakistani armies also have pipers


I once bought a bagpipe made in Pakistan. It was technically very faulty though...should have gotten a kukri kit I suppose.....bet the sound was better... :lol: