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View Full Version : Immigration, Fear and Being Oblivious


bobbyd
04-11-2009, 03:55 PM
A long, long time ago I subscribed to a discussion board that sends me emails of each post entered. It is tiny now in comparison to GG but once in awhile the threads are extremely well written and poignant. Here are 2 posts that give you a sense of how different we all think.

>What is 'patently rediculous' is the American attitude that everyone in the world wants to immigrate to the USA. This is the attitude at every American visa section I've ever seen - and Canadian ones as well, by the way. The assumption is that the person applying for the visitor visa is already guilty of lying and intends to immigrate - it is up to the person to try and prove otherwise. As can be witnessed, if any of you have ever actually BEEN to a US consulate and seen the stream of people coming out - a lot more people are rejected out of hand than are permitted. The discrimination or 'profiling' is particularly harsh against young women> - anyone who's ever tried to get any young woman over for a visit knows THIS to be a FACT

after a few posts about 9/11, Mexicans and the economy, a well thought out response from St. Pete

what d'ya think?
I think you have hit upon the main differences, those of us who do not live in constant fear of mysterious and invisible ills are pretty happy with our lives and are optimistic about the future. That is what we were taught about the US but when I visited a couple times I was immediately struck how fearful and stressed people where, ready to start arguments or even violence over invisible or even unspoken slights, finding fault with everything and everyone. I actually felt sorry for many of the Americans I met who have never seen how many people in the world, even in very poor countries are happy and lead fulfilling lives without cowering in corners as the best description I could think of for the emotional state there.

Fearing very very rare situations to the point of paralyzing or limiting masses of people can't be a healthy society. I think you will agree, we Russians take things in stride, don't fret about much and are usually quick to assume no harm when a slight it perceived. As a rule we have easy and healthy senses of humor and quite social. That might be the contrast with the US in they are stressed about unknowns that we have known and survived but have not been visited upon them. We have survived far worse than ANYTHING that has happened to the American people in any time inits history. They fear what they do not know and we do not fear what we have experienced that is worse than anything unknowns could be.

This forum is a good example of the differences in mind set, they can't accept that people, millions of people actually life our way of life, thrive, are happy, well educated, lead exciting and full lives and are not under stress about much of anything. When I visit Scandinavia and most ofEurope, I see the same thing, people doing just fine, happy and with low stress and fear of the unknown. In almost all personal respects we in Russia and Europe are freer from the demons that seem to dominate conversation and policies in the US. Yet they insist on lecturing us and bullying to get other countries to follow their path, which just is not proving so viable after all. What makes a society create people who are so closed minded and fearful? I personally want nothing to do with it, whatever it is. While you people are arguing over what you do not know about, I am turning off the computer to get ready for a ballet and then to a club to dance the entire night and not think about how misguides Americans think we are. I will no doubt meet my good American friend at the club, he is one American who understands Russia and our culture and does not live in fear, and has a happy, great life as a result.

Calgary1966
04-11-2009, 03:59 PM
A long, long time ago I subscribed to a discussion board that sends me emails of each post entered. It is tiny now in comparison to GG but once in awhile the threads are extremely well written and poignant. Here are 2 posts that give you a sense of how different we all think.

>What is 'patently rediculous' is the American attitude that everyone in the world wants to immigrate to the USA. This is the attitude at every American visa section I've ever seen - and Canadian ones as well, by the way. The assumption is that the person applying for the visitor visa is already guilty of lying and intends to immigrate - it is up to the person to try and prove otherwise. As can be witnessed, if any of you have ever actually BEEN to a US consulate and seen the stream of people coming out - a lot more people are rejected out of hand than are permitted. The discrimination or 'profiling' is particularly harsh against young women> - anyone who's ever tried to get any young woman over for a visit knows THIS to be a FACT

after a few posts about 9/11, Mexicans and the economy, a well thought out response from St. Pete

what d'ya think?
I think you have hit upon the main differences, those of us who do not live in constant fear of mysterious and invisible ills are pretty happy with our lives and are optimistic about the future. That is what we were taught about the US but when I visited a couple times I was immediately struck how fearful and stressed people where, ready to start arguments or even violence over invisible or even unspoken slights, finding fault with everything and everyone. I actually felt sorry for many of the Americans I met who have never seen how many people in the world, even in very poor countries are happy and lead fulfilling lives without cowering in corners as the best description I could think of for the emotional state there.

Fearing very very rare situations to the point of paralyzing or limiting masses of people can't be a healthy society. I think you will agree, we Russians take things in stride, don't fret about much and are usually quick to assume no harm when a slight it perceived. As a rule we have easy and healthy senses of humor and quite social. That might be the contrast with the US in they are stressed about unknowns that we have known and survived but have not been visited upon them. We have survived far worse than ANYTHING that has happened to the American people in any time inits history. They fear what they do not know and we do not fear what we have experienced that is worse than anything unknowns could be.

This forum is a good example of the differences in mind set, they can't accept that people, millions of people actually life our way of life, thrive, are happy, well educated, lead exciting and full lives and are not under stress about much of anything. When I visit Scandinavia and most ofEurope, I see the same thing, people doing just fine, happy and with low stress and fear of the unknown. In almost all personal respects we in Russia and Europe are freer from the demons that seem to dominate conversation and policies in the US. Yet they insist on lecturing us and bullying to get other countries to follow their path, which just is not proving so viable after all. What makes a society create people who are so closed minded and fearful? I personally want nothing to do with it, whatever it is. While you people are arguing over what you do not know about, I am turning off the computer to get ready for a ballet and then to a club to dance the entire night and not think about how misguides Americans think we are. I will no doubt meet my good American friend at the club, he is one American who understands Russia and our culture and does not live in fear, and has a happy, great life as a result.

A friend of mine was going to marry an american woman and was told outright that he would have better luck getting a Russian or Ukranian bride into Canada than an American woman. Apparently the government doesn't want them. The letter he got was interesting but offered no real explaination to the quota system

Lucker
04-11-2009, 04:30 PM
An interesting view of Americans by a Russian guy .
All the more unexpected when all health indices argue the complete opposite .
I think he confuses having a simple life and few material assets as being an integral part of happiness . That's a popular piece of BS invented by poor people to rationalise life .

bobbyd
04-11-2009, 05:01 PM
Is it Ray?

I've commented on the European vs N. American mindset and daily life before. Europe is far more relaxed for the most part, albeit certain major cities in Europe are hell. I would think that Russians, having lived through so much nonsense over the last century, would tend to be far more relaxed towards problems/indecencies that they have already experienced years earlier or consistently to this day.

N. Americans on the other hand are not as well experienced and are stresed on so many different levels - a good percentage of that surrounding the greedy culture we so lovingly embrace. Does not matter what Putin is doing - they have seen it before or variations. In the end, life is better than it was for their parents so...less stressed. We, on the other hand, have seen our pinnacle and living below that is hair- pulling stressful.

Lucker
04-11-2009, 05:33 PM
[QUOTE=bobbyd4u;76321]
. I would think that Russians, having lived through so much nonsense over the last century, would tend to be far more relaxed towards problems/indecencies that they have already experienced years earlier or consistently to this day.



I am not aware of the research which supports that view . I could make out a very strong case suggesting that " rape" increases fear and mania , however hard you try to contain it .
My belief is that people like Russians are deeply traumatised and they sink into themselves rather than the outward displays of short term manliness by American attempted Hero figures who rush around like headless chickens , ------ see Pirates Topic as a mini example . .

bobbyd
04-11-2009, 05:40 PM
is it not human nature, i.e. rookie cop vs veteran cop? i.e. The rookie will vomit while the veteran has seen it all before.

Lucker
04-11-2009, 05:45 PM
My very point .
Why do you assume that "having seen it before" equates with being able to handle stress ?
It is always the Vets who are the Stars because their problems are suppressed , repressed , buried that they become alcoholics and wife beaters in private ( just like ..... ) etc

bobbyd
04-11-2009, 06:04 PM
very correct, there are those that will turn to alcohol or other vices and then there are those that shake it off, accept the situation(s) and grow stronger with the ability to handle problems. The expression - Don't sweat the small stuff" becomes more prevalent in their lives.

RiverRock
04-12-2009, 05:38 AM
Calgary1966: A friend of mine was going to marry an american woman and was told outright that he would have better luck getting a Russian or Ukranian bride into Canada than an American woman. Apparently the government doesn't want them. The letter he got was interesting but offered no real explaination to the quota system

Yeah, isn't that funny. The Canadian government wants American gays so they can live somewhere where they feel more at home, but doesn't want the straight women. LOL. I don't think that is something I would brag about.

Toronto the Gay mecca (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080309140250AAOLzRv)

Calgary1966
04-12-2009, 05:42 AM
Yeah, isn't that funny. The Canadian government wants American gays so they can live somewhere where they feel more at home, but doesn't want the straight women. LOL. I don't think that is something I would brag about.

Toronto the Gay mecca (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080309140250AAOLzRv)
yeah well we don't want them either...personally I am leaning toward locking the border for a time to everyone.

RiverRock
04-12-2009, 05:52 AM
What is 'patently rediculous' is the American attitude that everyone in the world wants to immigrate to the USA. This is the attitude at every American visa section I've ever seen - and Canadian ones as well, by the way. The assumption is that the person applying for the visitor visa is already guilty of lying and intends to immigrate

It's not an attitude, it is a fact.

90%+ of the people that come here on a visa DO want to immigrate here... excluding most of western Europe, Canada, and Australia. Especially Russians. If they have the opportunity or can find a sucker to marry them so that they can stay, they will and do in a heartbeat.

Calgary1966
04-12-2009, 06:08 AM
It's not an attitude, it is a fact.

90%+ of the people that come here on a visa DO want to immigrate here... excluding most of western Europe, Canada, and Australia. Especially Russians. If they have the opportunity or can find a sucker to marry them so that they can stay, they will and do in a heartbeat.

Actually its not fact and hasn't been since the early part of the decade. Western Europe has regained that from America simply because of the nanny state looking after them. Which , if you look at it from a certain point of view, works in the US's favor. The deadbeats move into France and those with a vision move over here. I guess it lays rest to the idea that inside everyone is an american trying to get out.