What does Europe teach us? They face an even bigger problem.

[whynotme]

На русском языке эту статью Дарьи Асламовой можно прочитать в "Комсомольской правде" http://kp.ru/daily/24157/372105/...

A dangerous conflict is unfolding in the heart of Europe as the world discusses the recent war in the South Caucasus. Belgium's two historical communities — the Walloons and the Flemings — are aching to split the country in half. Interestingly, the nation's capital, Brussels, is home to the EU and NATO headquarters — institutions that adamantly spoke out against Russia's military actions in Georgia. But now it seems this key EU nation may face a complicated territorial dispute of its own.

"Why are you Russians so racist?" said Lauren, my friend and colleague in Brussels. We were sitting on Gran-Plas Square drinking a cold mug of beer. The question came a bit unexpected. "You don't get along with Georgia, Estonia or Ukraine. You also bombed Chechnya. What have the Chechens done to you personally?"

"To me?" I asked. "They beat me up once at a university dorm. I even filed a case with the police, but they were too afraid to do anything about it."

"Okay, but that's just an example of domestic hostility," he said condescendingly. "What I meant was something else. Europe's cherished democratic values are simply absent in Russia."

"What do you mean?" I said. "The whole world lives by the rules of domestic hostility. States are just like neighbors who constantly complain about where the fence was raised. Let's take you, for example, Lauren. You're a Walloon. Why do you hate your fellow Flemish citizens so much?"

He couldn't resist the bait. "The Flemish are just a bunch of sons of bitches," he yelled. "We'll have our way with them! Look, how can you compare the Flemish to the Chechens! This is an entirely different issue. Flanders is just one writhing nest of extremism."

I chuckled as he continued with his tirade. Lauren was getting a bit loud and heads started turning in our direction.

"Well, who is the racist now?" I asked him when he quieted down. "People are just inclined to hate. It's only natural. Conflicts are simmering everywhere. Belgium just put a temporary lid on the situation. The difference between rich and poor countries is their degree of hate relative to their temperament and their ability to provide graceful form to hostility. Here's a metaphor for you. When a man beats his wife in the slums, the news spreads quickly among his neighbors. The apartments are small and the walls are thin... But when spouses fight in their huge houses in the suburbs, no one suspects a thing until they divorce. The wife just puts her tonal cream on in the morning, powders her sore nose and takes her kids to school. They are the perfect picture, just like in Belgium."

[whynotme]

Accidental state

Last autumn, a practical joker put a scandalous lot up for bid on an Internet auction: "Belgium. A Three-Part Kingdom. Opening Price: 1 Euro. Note: The country can be purchased as a whole, although it's certainly not recommended."

Belgium is the EU's quiet capital and a symbol of European unity. But the country is slowly falling apart.

The country's Prime Minister Yves Leterme referred to Belgium as the result of a historical misunderstanding. It is a relatively young nation that was created in the post-Napoleon period (1830) as a military buffer between France and Germany. The country had no unifying ideas or aims, and a staged monarchy and complicated system of governance (six governments and six parliaments in three regions — Flanders, Walloon and Brussels).

The Belgian nationality is an ephemeral and anecdotal concept. Locals joke that Flemings and Walloons can be found everywhere, but there's no such thing as a Belgian. The two nations live together reluctantly under one umbrella. Its difficult to know just how long they have been warring. They speak different languages, read separate newspapers, watch different TV programs and root for their own football teams, celebrate different holidays and their children go to different schools... They don't intermarry. It's easier to find a mixed Arab-Jewish couple in Jerusalem than a Flemish-Walloon family in Brussels.

I remember the confused face Le Soir political journalist Alan Lalleman made when I asked him if he knew anyone in a mixed marriage. After taking a few moments to think, he said no one came to mind. "But how is that possible!" I asked. "In Brussels, Walloons marry blacks, Asians and Arabs, but they can't marry Flemings because they speak another language?!"

Alan said he had several Flemish friends living in Brussels and even contacts on the "other side." That was his phrase: "contacts." He is lucky. Most Flemings and Walloons don't talk to each other. Walloons think Flemings are greedy peasants who speak a strange language and Flemings think Walloons are uptight French aristocrats who suck the blood out of the Flemish region. Their hatred has deep historical roots and residents on both sides discuss the enmity without end. They would have separated long ago if not for economic reasons.

Flanders is enormously wealthy and Wallonia is extremely poor. In the 1960s, Flanders helped propel a second industrial revolution in Europe thanks to its rich agricultural sector. The region built roads and automobile and oil-manufacturing plants and the Antverpen port is now the second largest in Europe. Eighty percent of all the world's diamonds are produced in the area. The region's economic development is double Wallonia's, and unemployment is 2.5 times less than in the neighboring French-speaking region.

Each year, Flanders transfers an enormous amount of money — 10-12 billion euro — to Wallonia's budget. For comparison's sake, the EU only gives 300 million euro in aid to Palestine each year. Economists estimate every Fleming buys his/her Walloon neighbor a new automobile once every three years.

If Belgium collapses, Wallonia will be up a long creek with no paddle. It's no surprise the Walloons aren't burning with desire to become independent. The Flemings, on the other hand, can't wait to throw off the excess Walloon weight and make their centuries-old dream come true.

Another sparring point is Belgium's historical capital, Brussels, which is mainly inhabited by German-speaking Walloons. Who will have the rights to the heart of the EU once Belgium falls?

[whynotme]

Belgium's Flemish section wants to split the country in two.


Occupied Brussels

It was 22:00 when I got back to my small cozy hotel in the historical center — just a stone's throw from the main square.

As I approached the entrance, I saw a large crowd of no less than 200 Arabs on the street surrounded by journalists with microphones. They were staring at a crane near an old building across the street. Two people sat on top with their legs dangling over.

"What's going on?" I asked the cameramen.

"The Arabs were living in that building over there for several years," he said. "But now the owners want to renovate the building and throw them out. The police are still negotiating with them, and we're waiting to see if they'll jump."

"Can't you just use force?" I asked. "Or send in the SWAT team?"

"What will their lawyers say about that?" he asked.

"Lawyers?!" I replied puzzled. "I thought you said they were illegal emigrants?"

The cameraman looked at me strangely. "Everyone without papers has lawyers in Belgium," he said. "It's normal."

The crowd got louder. I took out my small camera to take a photo and a drunken Arab jumped towards me. He spit at me and started waving his hands emphatically.

"That idiot doesn't want his photo taken," the cameraman said. "Don't pay any attention."

"Messier, this is a public place!" he yelled to the Arab in French. "If you don't want your photo taken, then get out of here."

A scandal ensued. I pressed my purse to my chest tightly and slowly headed to the hotel.

I awoke to police sirens at one in the morning. Looking out the window, I saw three black bouncers standing in front of a dance club beating three Arabs. Their Middle Eastern friends buddies stood nearby.

Someone stuck his head out a neighboring window smoking a cigarette. "I can't sleep three nights already," he told me. "These !!!!ing Arabs! All we need to do is bring over the camels.You can't tell Brussels apart from Abu Dabi anymore!"

"Maybe you should call the police?" I suggested.

"Yeah, sure thing! The police don't want to get involved in this! In the Arab district?!" he said.

"What do you mean?" I asked. "This is the historical center of Brussels!"

"So what?" he replied. "There isn't one white person here anymore. Only Arabs and tourists. All the white people moved to the suburbs a long time ago."

The fight continued all night.

The next morning, I looked at Brussels through different eyes. I began to understand why they were so many empty windows and deserted homes in the district. Pregnant Arabs strolled down the sidewalks with their yapping children. On Masnikov Street, which was once known for its class and expensive restaurants, black waiters praised Belgian cuisine. The only white maitre d' was from Tunisia.

[beezneesman]

Who cares? It's only Belgium.

[dzerassa]

Who cares? It's only Belgium.

isn't nato headquareters in brussels?
i didn't notice any arabs in tv reports from nato headquarters :)

[beezneesman]

So there are no problems with immigrants/ethnics in the Soviet Union then?

[dzerassa]

Who cares? It's only Belgium.

so, it's russia is just so lucky with such a lot of your attention ?:)

[dzerassa]

so, it's russia is just so lucky with such a lot of your attention ?:)

if someone could understand what i said :)

[Lonewolf74]

Belgium?....whats that? :lol:

I wonder however what will Inghuchetya teach us.... anyone else got "accidentaly" shot in the head in the last two days?
Anyone else who doesnt agree with Murat Ziazikov??


V

[dzerassa]

Belgium?....whats that? :lol:

I wonder however what will Inghuchetya teach us.... anyone else got "accidentaly" shot in the head in the last two days?
Anyone else who doesnt agree with Murat Ziazikov??


V

wow, r u studying all russian news? :)

[Lonewolf74]

wow, r u studying all russian news? :)

Only the ones Caucasus related :p

Now seriously....not all of them but some yes. I follow closely a blog made by a portuguese journalist in Rússia.

V

[bryangriffiths]

Every pot can call the kettle black doesnt matter which pot or kettle, but do they have the nerve to change that and not do such horrible things, which do you like more , living or dieing or are you all such bone heads you cant tell the difference , then be sheep i wont

[zoroooo]

:plane:

LAND IN BEGIUM AND YOU GOT THE ULTIMATE SUREALISTIC EXPERIENCE.

JUST REMEMBER WE ARE WITH THE NETHERLAND THE FIRST COUNTRIES TO GIVE PEOPLE A REALL CHOICE TO END OUR LIFES IN A DECENT WAY;;

WE ACCEPT GAY MARIAGES

WE TALK BETWEEN OUR COMUNITIES ABOUT OUR DIFFIRENCES NEEDS AND FUTURES;
WE DONT USE FORCE BUT USE RHETORICS TO CONVICE;

WE ARENT NEUTRAL ;

TROUGH THE CENTURIES OUR OLD CULTURE OF ART SPREAD TROUGH THE CONTINENTS;

SO DUMB POEPLE GET A GRIP AND STOP FOOLING WITH US;


* all writte in that new concept...." BELGIAN ENGLISH" fookheads.


zoroooo

[saprosky]

Spain will send some "pacekeepers" and will give spanish passport in the flemish area (was part of Spanish Kingdom some centuries ago :becky:) to help them.

[Gabber]

http://www.gogabber.com/showthread.php?t=172

remember the 3 Ts of sarcasm Tact, timing, and target

ok, drop the timing and target, just remember about tact

[dzerassa]

Only the ones Caucasus related :p

Now seriously....not all of them but some yes. I follow closely a blog made by a portuguese journalist in Rússia.

V

the guy who was killed was an owner of website which was a very etremist site. of course it doesn' excuse for this murder, but i am quite sure it was an accidental mirder. if someone wanted to kill him it was 10 times easier in moscow where he lived and for sure not in the car by people known to his friends and relatives who now risk blood revenge. if it was a planned murder then it would be done other way so that nobody knew the killer.
so i do think it was accidental.

[Lonewolf74]

the guy who was killed was an owner of website which was a very etremist site. of course it doesn' excuse for this murder, but i am quite sure it was an accidental mirder. if someone wanted to kill him it was 10 times easier in moscow where he lived and for sure not in the car by people known to his friends and relatives who now risk blood revenge. if it was a planned murder then it would be done other way so that nobody knew the killer.
so i do think it was accidental.

I think the point here is the fact that he flew on the same plane as the Inguchetya president, that he was arrested as it landed and that he was "accidentally" killed by the police. I find it more plausible for one to be accidentaly shot everywhere except in the head.
As for Inguchetya.ru how extremist is it? Are you sure its not just a news site that opposes to Murat Ziazikov...an old KGB general by the way!?!?
And now a blood revenge is on...and you know way better than me what that means in the Caucasus...

And another journalist has been killed in Daguestan...its tough being a journalist in Rússia...

V

[huney]

And another journalist has been killed in Daguestan...its tough being a journalist in Rússia...

V

In Nalchik the editor of the newspaper Gazeta Yuga was badly beaten and is in hospital with head injuries.

That's three this week.

[Sveta's Hero]

its tough being a journalist in Rússia...

V


Nah...if they just report the weather, they will be fine.:rain::smow::eyebrows:

[beezneesman]

Nah...if they just report the weather, they will be fine.:rain::smow::eyebrows:


Don't you realize comrade. The weather is a state secret!

[dzerassa]

I think the point here is the fact that he flew on the same plane as the Inguchetya president, that he was arrested as it landed and that he was "accidentally" killed by the police. I find it more plausible for one to be accidentaly shot everywhere except in the head.
As for Inguchetya.ru how extremist is it? Are you sure its not just a news site that opposes to Murat Ziazikov...an old KGB general by the way!?!?
And now a blood revenge is on...and you know way better than me what that means in the Caucasus...

And another journalist has been killed in Daguestan...its tough being a journalist in Rússia...

V

igushetiya.ru was an extremist site, it wasn't simply opposing zyazikov, if u ever read it of course. another question that it is maybe not the only one such extremist site, i think all such sites should be closed or should be warned. it's like here in forum, admin bans those whom consider not following rules, right? it was closed by decision of a court.

zyazikov is former kgb person, true, so what? there r several forces there fighting with each other, they r tied to different clans and in my opinion all about power and finance in that region.

noone would kill a person to be chased by blood revenge later, i am sure it was accidental muder.

[dzerassa]

And another journalist has been killed in Daguestan...its tough being a journalist in Rússia...

V

criminal situation in general became very bad from the very beginning of democratic reforms in yeltsin's russia when our western patrons were tapping his shoulder saying "u go the right way friend"

[dzerassa]

Don't you realize comrade. The weather is a state secret!

how was name of the guy in uk who published some report about iraq which was different from what government was saying and then he was found dead?

[dzerassa]

.its tough being a journalist in Rússia...

V


look, there r hundreds of journalists in russia saying whatever they want. just listen to echo moscow. they r free to say what they think.

[dzerassa]

Don't you realize comrade. The weather is a state secret!

there is no state secret for u comrade, just say what u want to know :)

[beezneesman]

how was name of the guy in uk who published some report about iraq which was different from what government was saying and then he was found dead?

Dr Kelly committed suicide Nonna - allegations that he was murdered are strictly for the tin foil hat brigade. It would have been a bit risky to bump him off when half of the media and their camera crews in the UK were trying to find him!!! I don't think spies like to risk being filmed when they are trying to assassinate someone.
;)

[dzerassa]

Dr Kelly committed suicide Nonna - allegations that he was murdered are strictly for the tin foil hat brigade. It would have been a bit risky to bump him off when half of the media and their camera crews in the UK were trying to find him!!! I don't think spies like to risk being filmed when they are trying to assassinate someone.
;)

governmental version? :)

did they say what were his reasons ?

[beezneesman]

governmental version? :)

did they say what were his reasons ?

Apart from the stress caused by the Parliamentary enquiry in which he was basically left to take the blame for the government I believe he had 'marital' problems. And of course he was being hounded by the British and foreign media.

[sliver]

there r several forces there fighting with each other, they r tied to different clans and in my opinion all about power and finance in that region.
yes and as well to my mind we, europeans, will hardly ever understand Caucasus problems, relations between its nationalities and clans.

[sliver]

as far as i know Kremlin also is much discontented with criminal situation in this republic. prosecutor general's office demands to hold an inquiry

[dzerassa]

as far as i know Kremlin also is much discontented with criminal situation in this republic. prosecutor general's office demands to hold an inquiry


i remember i passed cross road in nazran and then in 10 minutes it exploded, killing people

[Lucker]

Gazprom HQ (Kremlin) has been having considerable trouble in areas like Ingushetia and Dagezstan and these have become more intense following the disastrous Russian incursion into Georgia and the absurd decision of Russia to recognise South Ossetian and Abkhazian independence .
Now everybody wants Independence . ROFL .
Yevloyev's website was not extremist . It simply was against the imposed Kremlin view !
His greatest crime was to show the utter fraud underlying this year's Preidential election . This pattern was the usual one practised everywhere in the Federation and officially 96% of the Inguishetian population voted ( !! ) and 98% of them voted for Medvedev -- there was no real alternative vote anyhow .Of course such figures are ludicrous and typical of State Security and Regional Government incredible blunders .Separate polls have shown that almost 50% of the population stated that they had cast no votes of any kind . Yes , Yevloyev was a real thorn in the backside for Team Putin .
Incidentally Russia is the third world's worst country for the assassination and disappearance of journalists in the last 15 years . Iraq and Algeria are worse !!!!!!!!!!!
The other Ingushetian journalist killed this year was strangled by his own belt in Moscow .
I expect both deaths were accidental .ROFL again

[Neilikka]

Of course, they were! Who doubts?

[Lucker]

Let's have a little background to the bombings in Sochi .
I wonder how many of you know of these incidents -- the latest occurring just a few days ago ?

[Neilikka]

All of us know, I suppose. They were widely reported on TV and in the NET

[beezneesman]

I see Putin is sabre rattling against Britain again today

That guy really needs to get laid or something:rolleyes:

A classic case of 'small man' syndrome

[Lucker]

He hates us ever since we exposed the Litvinenko contract killing . I was telling Bella earlier this week about the other two members of URPO who were involved with Lugovoi .
Then , to my surprise , I read in the Russian papers earlier today that URPO has been officially shut .
Of course this is public window dressing as the 2006 legislation made unauthorised executions of State enemies anywhere in the world quite legal .So why have a separate part of the FSB involved officially in contract killings ? Just do it unofficially .
Team Putin are probably convinced we are financing the Sochi bombing campaign so that the Winter Olympics are taken away from them . Another excellent Raymondo idea but unfortunately it is more likely to be North Caucasus breakaway factions . Or even the FSB bombing their own again in order to whip up hysteria against Islam extremists -- just as they did for the Chechens and more recently the Georgians .

[vitashenka]

He hates us ever since we exposed the Litvinenko contract killing .

Seems you hate us from your bith :)

[Lucker]

weetabix
I hate no race -- though Somalians are tragically a lost cause for a few generations . I hate rules , regulations , and , above all , systems . I feel immeasurably sad for those whose eyes and ears have been covered , often when those that do the covering are the very people who should be great carers and leaders .Not just your State , but all States .
That is crucial .
Some of us think that the great "You " have been beaten and cowed for so long that you have become paranoid about criticism and personalise it without even realising . I would not expect you to agree but it is a perspective to occasionally consider , imo

[whynotme]

Seems you hate us from your bith :)

No, much earlier :becky:

[beezneesman]

It's always interesting to see that when criticism of the Russian government is made it is always interpreted by certain people on here as being due to personal hatred of all things Russian.

A most bizarre attitude. It is tempting to speculate on what social and personal conditions could have created such thin-skinned hypersensitivity and paranoia in the 'Russia Strong' crowd.

[dzerassa]

Gazprom HQ (Kremlin) has been having considerable trouble in areas like Ingushetia and Dagezstan and these have become more intense following the disastrous Russian incursion into Georgia and the absurd decision of Russia to recognise South Ossetian and Abkhazian independence .
Now everybody wants Independence . ROFL .
Yevloyev's website was not extremist . It simply was against the imposed Kremlin view !
His greatest crime was to show the utter fraud underlying this year's Preidential election . This pattern was the usual one practised everywhere in the Federation and officially 96% of the Inguishetian population voted ( !! ) and 98% of them voted for Medvedev -- there was no real alternative vote anyhow .Of course such figures are ludicrous and typical of State Security and Regional Government incredible blunders .Separate polls have shown that almost 50% of the population stated that they had cast no votes of any kind . Yes , Yevloyev was a real thorn in the backside for Team Putin .
Incidentally Russia is the third world's worst country for the assassination and disappearance of journalists in the last 15 years . Iraq and Algeria are worse !!!!!!!!!!!
The other Ingushetian journalist killed this year was strangled by his own belt in Moscow .
I expect both deaths were accidental .ROFL again

have u ever read that website?

do u know what percentage voted for example for the first leader of ingushetia? i expect about 120% :) joke of course but i think was also high

yevloev was the one supporting ziazikov in his presidential campaign, then their interests became diferent maybe or something else. but he wasn't a thorn for anyone except the local authorities. but i wrote already my opinion on his death.

[dzerassa]

A classic case of 'small man' syndrome

what is your syndrom of trying to find syndroms in a man whom women like so much :)

[dzerassa]

It's always interesting to see that when criticism of the Russian government is made it is always interpreted by certain people on here as being due to personal hatred of all things Russian.

.

beez sorry but if u say complete nonsense about things u have no idea about or u know from mass media how to react?
if u tell me about war in ossetia never been neither here nor georgia not even russia?

russian girls just show their respect to all of u guys discussing this issue 'cause we like u all :)

[Lucker]

Jurassic
As I have separately Posted , I am in total agreement with Beeswaxes statement that some of you often react extravagantly to almost any criticism . It seems you confuse system and practise comments with personal criticism .
Your further comments along the lines of " Don't talk about matters that you have no first hand knowledge of " is plainly absurd and insulting . It's like saying , "Don't tell me about the composition of the moon's surface because you have never visited it "
The more so , given the tragic situation of Russians never getting correct information because of the very way your system is constructed .
This is not just my opinion or the opinion put out by my Government as some form of propaganda .This is the view of every reasonable and fair minded individual in the world who takes the time and effort to examine matters objectively and listen to experts and independent bodies from every continent and every self respecting professional community .
I really think it's about time some of you tried to grapple with the possibility that you live in a community which is fooled most of the time about virtually everything you value .
Instead of screeching and screaming outrage and offence , try and be constructive and see how the two enormously different perspectives could be examined and analysed .
For example , take a small matter and go back to basics and see what it is that made you believe it in the first place . Check , compare and analyse your sources and then correlate them with the opposing view .
I offer you the death of Anna Politkovskaya as a Topic . My position would be that your President was aware of the contract and effectively sanctioned it .
That is a grave charge and clearly requires very careful and rigorous defense for it to be accepted .
But the one thing that is not acceptable is for someone to yell, " Rubbish " just because the accusation is painful and to then proceed to talk about Western propaganda acts and paranoid Russia haters without ever discussing the specifics in any rational and measured way .
Do you want to try it , Jurassic , Vitabix , Sunny , Silver , Cracker , Why Not and a few others ?
Nothing personal . Just open , honest critical discussion and ideas swapping .

[dzerassa]

Jurassic
It's like saying , "Don't tell me about the composition of the moon's surface because you have never visited it "

.

if u tell me about it it's ok, i will even beleive u but if u discuss it with a physical scientist or those americans who landed there, it's another thing

[dzerassa]

J My position would be that your President was aware of the contract and effectively sanctioned it ..

any proofs apart from your own position?

by the way what is your position about lady diana's death? no uk services involved?

[brown-raider]

any proofs apart from your own position?

by the way what is your position about lady diana's death? no uk services involved?they took her out of course! they couldn't have running around screwing some arab and disgracing the family name, basicly thats what Al fahed, dodi's father said about it

[beezneesman]

they took her out of course! they couldn't have running around screwing some arab and disgracing the family name, basicly thats what Al fahed, dodi's father said about it

That would be the serial liar and deeply corrupt businessman Mohammed Fayed wouldn't it? ;)

I am going to trust that you were joking and it isn't the tin foil in your hat wearing a bit thin :-)

Would you trust the word of someone who adds the arabic honorific 'al' to his name? It would be like me declaring myself to be 'Lord Manchester' or something :-)

[beezneesman]

beez sorry but if u say complete nonsense about things u have no idea about or u know from mass media how to react?
if u tell me about war in ossetia never been neither here nor georgia not even russia?

russian girls just show their respect to all of u guys discussing this issue 'cause we like u all :)

I am simply commenting on the incontrovertible textual evidence of the reactions we see all the time on this forum. Any criticism of the actions of the Russian government is taken as being a personal attack against themselves by Russian people here. If you can't see that then you must be blind.

From my own point of view I simply accept that a lot of people don't like Britain and/or the British government. They MAY also hate all British people and me personally but I do not automatically assume that and accuse them of it. In fact I really don't care if some typist thousands of miles away hates me personally or all British people generally because at the end of the day they're just a typist :-)

[dzerassa]

It would be like me declaring myself to be 'Lord Manchester' or something :-)

i didn't understand almost anything but this Lord Manchester i like :)
sounds very impressive :)

[brown-raider]

That would be the serial liar and deeply corrupt businessman Mohammed Fayed wouldn't it? ;)

I am going to trust that you were joking and it isn't the tin foil in your hat wearing a bit thin :-)

Would you trust the word of someone who adds the arabic honorific 'al' to his name? It would be like me declaring myself to be 'Lord Manchester' or something :-)I don't wear a hat.. I have a full head of black hair... ramon told me the government had her snuffed, and he also said Diana's oldest son is next on the list because he's a Gay..:rolleyes:

[dzerassa]

Any criticism of the actions of the Russian government is taken as being a personal attack against themselves by Russian people here. If you can't see that then you must be blind.



if u ever said one good thing about actions of russian government then maybe we wouldn't be so sensitive.

but the whole thing started about south ossetia, this is how i personally got acquainted with your ideas and i was shocked by your and other uk and usa men's position accusing russian government of all possible sins.
for me it was painful to read what u say about russians and ossetians in this case and yes i do think u do it 'cause u don't like russia as a country not meaning culture, people etc but as a country which dared to do something without your countries' revernd permission

good luck

[beezneesman]

if u ever said one good thing about actions of russian government then maybe we wouldn't be so sensitive.


OK

'One good thing'

Happy now?

Dosvidanya

[dzerassa]

OK

'One good thing'

Happy now?

Dosvidanya

see? even now u didn't find what good to say except this joking "one good thing"

impressed by your knowledge of russan language, nice western accent

[zoroooo]

"new republic born in Russian...it called itself Lavunistan..Gasprom straight sended negotiators to get new contracts ...yess Lavunistan old Russain region of the former russian republic was well Know for their experiments with faeces of pork ... a highly devloped industry. The most competitive industry of the old cccp.

The old director zelikokokvick got fired because of coruption ..He try to export all the gas produced by his and his family farting.He got a secret contract with the Bush family so they could heat their family house at low costs.

Putin and his president decide to go on weekend to exam the situation. Before they passed the pharmacy to buy vaseline."


What a shitty situation.


dr strangelove.

[beezneesman]

"new republic born in Russian...it called itself Lavunistan..Gasprom straight sended negotiators to get new contracts ...yess Lavunistan old Russain region of the former russian republic was well Know for their experiments with faeces of pork ... a highly devloped industry. The most competitive industry of the old cccp.

The old director zelikokokvick got fired because of coruption ..He try to export all the gas produced by his and his family farting.He got a secret contract with the Bush family so they could heat their family house at low costs.

Putin and his president decide to go on weekend to exam the situation. Before they passed the pharmacy to buy vaseline."


What a shitty situation.


dr strangelove.

And there was me thinking that Ramon was cryptic :eek:

[zoroooo]

And there was me thinking that Ramon was cryptic :eek:

ramon?? ramon aaaaaaaaa that living fosile called lord of Ypres?

[Lucker]

Lord Konk of the Honk to Jurassic
Unlike you , I cannot condense answers to the world's mysteries into "one liners" !!Before discussing Diana or Anna you must understand that some subjects cannot be understood in Black and White terms , like Logic or Mathematics or Newtonian Physics .
The other matters can only be only understood in probability terms and all sane people are obliged to work to certain levels of acceptance .Usually , I believe , that subjects which are staistically true at the 95% level of mathematical confidence are regarded as near fact as it is reasonable to be .
On that basis you can put Dianas death as accidental at the 99.5% level of confidence and my statement about the circumstances of AP's death at a lesser level and at around 90% , in my view .

However , to get to these conclusions you need to trawl through a library of evidence .
We cannot do this here as too many people start to switch off once the second paragraph is reached .
As ever , people want easy fixes and help themselves to easy conclusions by not checking sources and choosing material selectively ---- unconsciously when personality factors touch the issue , deliberately when political stances have been predetermined .

[RiverRock]

And there was me thinking that Ramon was cryptic

That's not cryptic. That is Belgian English!

[zoroooo]

ramon ,

it seems we are both doing some logorhea....should we conclude that we havent overcome our anal phase?:rolleyes:

dr love

[sunontheway]

beez sorry but if u say complete nonsense about things u have no idea about or u know from mass media how to react?
if u tell me about war in ossetia never been neither here nor georgia not even russia?


They belive that things about Russia are seen more clearly from being far away :lol:

No doubt our government (as well as those on Downing Street and Pennsylvania Avenue) has quite a number of skeletons in their closets. And we will probably never know the truth.

Beezman, Russians argue not because you critisize the government but because they are sure that you vision of the conflict with Gerogia is wrong. Our western friends are so sure that their opinion is objective... based on "free objective western mass media". I also relayed on western mass media more... before
this war started.

Last week I was having guests from Germany who was making a documentary film about Russia. I desided not to talk to them about politics as I expected their point of view would be the same like we already heard
here in LL. So I said no single word about Georgia.

By the end of the week, when we were sitting in a cafe and chatted, they naturally amazed me. They said that their point of view on the conflict was slowly changing now... they said that their mass media in Germany presented events in a unipolar way and were interested to hear my opinion now as a local.

I liked very much yestarday's meeting of Putin with political scientists and journalists in Sochi. He answered lot of debatable questions clearly. I wonder if an English version of this meeting already exists...

[zoroooo]

They belive that things about Russia are seen more clearly from being far away :lol:

No doubt our government (as well as those on Downing Street and Pennsylvania Avenue) has quite a number of skeletons in their closets. And we will probably never know the truth.

Beezman, Russians argue not because you critisize the government but because they are sure that you vision of the conflict with Gerogia is wrong. Our western friends are so sure that their opinion is objective... based on "free objective western mass media". I also relayed on western mass media more... before
this war started.

Last week I was having guests from Germany who was making a documentary film about Russia. I desided not to talk to them about politics as I expected their point of view would be the same like we already heard
here in LL. So I said no single word about Georgia.

By the end of the week, when we were sitting in a cafe and chatted, they naturally amazed me. They said that their point of view on the conflict was slowly changing now... they said that their mass media in Germany presented events in a unipolar way and were interested to hear my opinion now as a local.

I liked very much yestarday's meeting of Putin with political scientists and journalists in Sochi. He answered lot of debatable questions clearly. I wonder if an English version of this meeting already exists...
l Ladies, from russia ,


I try to be moderated ...no sense to react so...you havent a freedom of press . Manny of your previous critical tv programs have been shut down by your friend Putin and president ..How many murders on journalists?

Litle bit autocritic has it place here.

zozooo instead of zorrozorro

[sunontheway]

Lavun

You and me are speaking of two different things :becky:

[zoroooo]

Lavun

You and me are speaking of two different things :becky:

no disagree you speak Bussian English and me the only good Belgian English:lol:

but still I have a point


zorozoro

[Lucker]

Yes we have read his Sochi Question and Answer session . In full and without alterations .
My view is that VP is a very chastened man .
He has seen investment sucked out of Russia at a frightening rate . He has seen his Stock market crash . The rouble is taboo short term and at a time when Oil prices have collapsed ( for a time )
He has realised that no one supported his resolution to recognise Independence for SO and Abkhazia . Worse , he realises that he has opened up a can of worms with places like Chechnya , Dagestan and Ingushetia thinking again on the same lines -- Independence please .
He has seen Sochi bombed again and realises that his prize jewel could be at stake if he dares repeat his mistakes --- he could lose the Winter Olympics and be removed from G8 and not accepted into the World Trade Organisation .
His rhetoric and colourful phrasing had gone . Slowly Russia is seeing that with the Georgia saga they may have scored more than one own goal .

[sunontheway]

I agree that recognition of SO and Abhazia independance was a too hurry desicion but from the other hand I have no idea how they could solve this problem. What a mess!

[Lucker]

On the Piss
Actually , the Russian double act wrote the resolution of acceptance of Independence and told the Duma to ratify it .
They knew it would get scant support but I suspect they were shaken when their effective total planet support was zero .
Regardless , they knew from the outset that the UN would veto but it was deemed a good idea at a time , when they thought they had been clever and that it could be used as a future bargaining position .
Basically the world has laughed at them and now they are somewhat shaken and back peddling .
In the way that we blundered big ,big , big with our move into Iraq , Russia will rue their stupidity in Georgia for a long , long time .

[zoroooo]

sorry Ramon,


the stupidy is not only ussian I refere here to a post I made on the old forum read.

"dear all,

It seems that the batle field has moved from the caucasus to LL.. Concider that the tree parties here are all looser at the end.

1First the vili guy from georgia thought he could open a romantic war to "free" a teritory.. Instead to work on autonomy for its region in a federation.. now his is closse to be bombed too the 19 th century back.

2 the two rebel areas which has been provocing instead to put heir case for autonomy wich was an option a time ago.

3 russia who felt the need to show to be again a world power...just a wolrd power only build on military has in th 21th no atraction at all to others...Its 19th century thinking. the quality of their leaders and rethorics has it place on the kindergarthen ..try to read the translation of medved his way of qualification of georgian poeple a reall shame..it just excites russians to behave more rude..

maybe we members we have all to loose to continiu to follow thoose parties here.. and stopping this topic is maybe the best...And if this ddint cool you down so..my office is open tomorrow at 8H30 and its equiped with diffirent punshing balls.

frienfly to all

zoroooo"

[dzerassa]

Worse , he realises that he has opened up a can of worms with places like Chechnya , Dagestan and Ingushetia thinking again on the same lines -- Independence please .


ramon, beleive me, if u start saying about independence to most of the population of the places u mentioned they would be very much surprised if not say more.
beleive me, most of all they just want quiet peaceful life.

[Lucker]

If you asked me whether I prefer peace and quiet to revolution and bloodshed , I would give you the easy answer . And that's the only thing those dodgy polls indicate .
Independence is something asked for initially by what Russia would call Terrorists but others would call freedom fighters . And they start as a small part of the population .
Further , they( The Separatists ) are there in all those spots .
And now they have the perfect reason to claim Independence --- Russia itself sanctioned it as a legitimate route to follow .ROFL
When the so called Moslem /Islam extremists are ready , the fighting will escalate .
Hopefully soon and to liven up the Forum .;)

[krevedko]

..my office is open tomorrow at 8H30 and its equiped with diffirent punshing balls.

:eek: punching balls or punishing balls?

[Lucker]

But surely not a load of balls .