The Final Solution for Russia’s Internet

[Neilikka]

RUSSOFT, a trade association of the largest software companies in Russia, the Ukraine and Belarus, has come forward with a new proposal to separate the Russian internet from the rest of the world.

The group’s president, Valentin Makarov, told the CNews internet newspaper that a funnel could readily be created to control the flow of information through Russia’s online borders. Makarov underscored that such a move would cost several hundred million dollars, and would likely take around 10 years to implement.

The proposal seems to mimic an idea expressed by Russia’s Minister of Communication, Igor Schegolev. Schegolev had earlier spoken about the need to protect the Russian share of the internet (called the Runet for websites ending in .ru), from external threats.

The ministry is currently working on creating a Cyrillic alphabet alternative to the Latin-based domain name system, and the controls could feasibly go hand-in-hand.

The proposal on “providing access to foreign Internet resources through a funnel,” appeared in a report written by Makarov titled “Proposals for developing the information society.” As of yet, Makarov says he hasn’t discussed the project “with the people who make the decisions on these issues in Russia.”

The computer expert firmly believes that an information funnel will not necessarily be used to restrict Internet freedoms. “International rules and standards must be worked out to attribute sources that are dangerous to society, and control of the national network must be established based on a dialogue between the government and the online community,” Makarov explained.

Kremlin critics are concerned that such a move would give the government undue power over the internet, which has remained relatively free even as authorities have clamped down on independent print and broadcast media.

The idea harkens to the example of China, which controls online information flows with a wide-scale funneling network. The system, known as the Golden Shield Project and the Great Firewall of China (Read a detailed account from The Atlantic) controls the flow of information in and out of China, and has been used to block independent international news websites as well as information about dissidence in the country.

Other Russia

[saprosky]

Some russians weak up at morning, drink a Smirnoff's bottle and write a lot of nonsenses.

This article is stupid in all senses. Who write it don't have any idea of Internet (normal if it is a politician)

[Neilikka]

I can't find anything silly in this article. The rumours have been heard since last week and we even discussed it in our group Veche in Russian. I only had to wait for a few days to see them in a written form to tell all of you about it.
Cheer up!It's not early morning any more.

[sunontheway]

I also heard it a week ago and the idea to create domain names with the cyrillic alphabet even earlier on TV. I do not know who gets such crazy ideas in their heads.
But don't think that the internet is out of control now. Remember how quickly Georgians blocked access for people to Russian sites.

[saprosky]

As I said before, it's a total nonsense for many reasons. But main is the total control of the comunications by The State. The same that happens in China. For me is the worst reason.

What they want protect ???
Russians from western propaganda or maybe westerns from russian propaganda ???? Block sites like Blogger, You Tube, Google or similars is simply to cut your freedom of speech.

BTW, technically is easy (and russian are experts) jump the wall. Any computer technician know how to do it and russian is first place on it.

The most funny is to implement Cyrillic alphabet. Just idiot. Test yourself, try to visit this website:

españa.com

(write the domain in your komp but if you can't :becky:, just copy&paste)

Many people wanted local characters in domain names (Spain, France, Germany, ...) to have correct mispelling, but if you dont have this characters in your keyboard is almost impossible to access. So all russian websites will be isolated of the rest of the world, except for people with russian keyboard. (it happens too with some stupid spanish)

And finally. Chinese have own system because they create it from beggining. Russian have the normalized system. Change to other will suppose change servers, structure and personal komps configuration. Expensive and difficult to do.

[sunontheway]

So all russian websites will be isolated of the rest of the world, except for people with russian keyboard. (it happens too with some stupid spanish)


It is a failing idea, I can't imagine that anybody wanted to register a name in cyrillic. From the other hand, do you often read Russian sites with the Russian content? :lol:

I have no idea what they are going to "protect". I think they are not speaking about blocking western sites but "external threats" is totally unclear terminology.

[sunontheway]

españa.com


You can set any languages on your computer through Control panel, it's just not comfortable to use.

[saprosky]

You can set any languages on your computer through Control panel, it's just not comfortable to use.

Yes, of course. But try to find the right key. Western keyboards dont have double character printed in the keys as russians.

Now I can enter mail.ru for example and read the website in russian (or translate it) but how would do in cyrillic ?? Using a russian keyboard ??? Screen keyboard is also an option (I often use it) but not comfortable.

Using cyrillic, spanish, french, german or some else with special characters domain names are simply close you to your market, not open you to the world.

[Sveta's Hero]

special characters domain names are simply close you to your market, not open you to the world.

Seems like part of the plan.

[krevedko]

Seems like part of the plan.

which has been devised by cunning evil Russians as far back as 860. :becky:

[saprosky]

Seems like part of the plan.

I think is the goal. A very big market: Russia and CIS countries. Poor idea in a global world and market.

[sunontheway]

Most people and companies just won't register such domains.
It's just an option.

[st.gans]

Некоторое время назад у китайцев появилась возможность регистрировать доменные имена по-китайски. Недавно о похожей услуге объявила компания РБК. Она предлагает регистрировать домены по-русски в зоне .COM.

Пожалуй, идея регистрировать домены не латинскими буквами — это самое идиотское, что появилось за последнее время в сети.

Не только с точки зрения интерфейса, но и с точки зрения организации информации смешивание алфавитов представляет собой чудовищную проблему для любого, кто захочет потом в такой каше разобраться. Смешанные алфавиты (и смешанные регистры — в системах, где разница существует, как в UNIX, например) хороши только для создания паролей. Но доменное имя — это не шифровка, оно нужно для того, чтобы его могли при желании набрать руками.

Владелец русскоязычного домена сможет вместо WWW создать домен третьего уровня ВВВ. Но COM — это не крупная пресноводная бесчешуйчатая хищная рыба, а сокращение от английского commercial, и набирать это надо латинскими буквами.


Русские домены таят в себе еще много проблем:

Во-первых, вообще непонятно, как набрать домен русскими буквами, когда нельзя быть уверенным, что у всех пользователей одна кодировка.

Во-вторых, при нажатии на любую ссылку внутри сайта русские буквы домена будут превращаться в такие закорюки: %F5%F3%E9%ED%FF.

В-третьих, с таким адресом нельзя нормально пользоваться электронной почтой.

В-четвертых, русский домен нельзя перевести в латиницу — переводное название может оказаться давно занятым.
типа:
Исходная строка: россия
Результат перекодировки: xn--h1alffa9f

Исходная строка: гогаббер
Результат перекодировки: xn--80acafap2dva


Но самая страшная проблема может возникнуть в случае, когда кто-то решит завести адрес, в котором в пределах доменного имени второго уровня будут перемешаны русские и латинские буквы. Например: WWW.IВМ.COM. В слове IBM только первая буква латинская. Вторые две — это русские «вэ» и «эм». С таким адресом можно сделать копию сайта IBM и повесить форму для сбора денег под видом электронного магазина (а электронный дизайн воруется без проблем и с идеальной аккуратностью).


Чем длиннее существующий домен, тем тяжелее предусмотреть и зарегистрировать все сочетания букв из разных алфавитов (мы еще не забываем про кодировки).


Кстати, все буквы на современных автомобильных номерах в России (которые с регионом) — только латинские. Набор знаков ограничен двенадцатью — A, E, O, У, B, C, T, P, H, K, M, X.

На синих номерах МВД еще встречается буква D.

Нужно это для того, чтобы в нашем номере могло разобраться любое учреждение мира. Все-таки, сложно в Интерпол сообщать, как именно выглядят и произносятся буквы «Ы», «Ю» или «Щ».



А уж про универсальность вообще можно забыть. Нет русской клавиатуры под рукой — отдыхай, дорогой товарищ. Если кому-то этот аргумент кажется неубедительным — пусть наберет хоть один адрес по-китайски.

[Lucker]

. Remember how quickly Georgians blocked access for people to Russian sites.[/QUOTE]



Most absurd Post of the year .

[sunontheway]

Но самая страшная проблема может возникнуть в случае, когда кто-то решит завести адрес, в котором в пределах доменного имени второго уровня будут перемешаны русские и латинские буквы. Например: WWW.IВМ.COM. В слове IBM только первая буква латинская. Вторые две — это русские «вэ» и «эм». С таким адресом можно сделать копию сайта IBM и повесить форму для сбора денег под видом электронного магазина (а электронный дизайн воруется без проблем и с идеальной аккуратностью).


Вот это самая большая проблема. И тем более если они начнут регистрировать смешанные. Каждый день приходят "запросы" подтвердить какие-нибудь данные.

раураl.соm - only "l" and "m" are written with latin letters

[sunontheway]

. Remember how quickly Georgians blocked access for people to Russian sites.

Most absurd Post of the year .

INDEED? We have a witness here from Georgia. Alenika wrote in LL forum about it. Tell her that she wrote absurd! :lol:

http://www.luckylovers.net/forum/forum_search.php?f_str=russian+sites&f_user=alenika&f_date=&f_part=19&f_search=Search

alenika
Georgia
12 Aug 2008 14:28

1) Yes I heard of some virus.. But russian tv doesn't work either.
2) no russian sites work at all. Not all of them. It's not hackers, it seems to be full closing of access to all ru domains.

[Lucker]

If you only knew what went on before that , you would die of shame .
One of these days I will give you chapter and verse about how Russia is almost constantly engaged in Cyber war with the EU and NATO and give you access to International reports on such allegations and UN discussions .
It is now a standard part of Russian warfare . We saw it big time in Estonia last year when in parallel the bully boys were bussed down to Taillin to give the Estonians a good slapping .
It was seen in Georgia in July of this year as part of a dress rehearsal for the August invasion .
In Georgia in August they brought the Government and Military to a standstill through their cyber warfare and quite possibly brought an end to Military resistance a few days before it would have otherwise collapsed under the sheer weight of superior troop and equipment numbers .
In actual fact there is considerable evidence that the Russians were in a lot of Military trouble before the Cyber attacks and as a result there is a complete overhaul of Russian Army strategy in the pipeline including moving away from conscripts to a smaller professional body .
That last comment is detailed by Russian Security Council members ( my old friend Patrushev) and the new head of the Military whose name I have forgotten but could produce if required . All the speeches are in the public domain and were reported widely .
Just a few off the cuff remarks .

[sunontheway]

Ramon

I always said I respected you for your wide knowledge of Russia but your problem is that you decline everything what doesn't fit your theory, it looks like you have your own personal war.

There are things you don't know and can't know but you just claim them as facts.

A good example is in this thread just few posts above. Another good example was in the thread about banks.

[Lucker]

Every statement in my last Post is supportable on a world wide basis by experts in every major country--- cyber warfare . Even Russia does not dispute the proposition .

The latter statements , as indicated , are by the most senior politicians and Military personnel in Russia .

Your response was a mess imo without a single fact and just vague and wishy washy remarks .
It is the type of Post that the YRWM produced daily in quantity . They simply do not sustain a dialogue , let alone advance joint understanding .
I put in a great deal of private research and will admit error or poor judgement if there is evidence to suggest it likely .
But a professor , for example , is not at war because he knows his subject !


As regards the Banking material . Every single word came from Russian newspapers and specialist reports .
If you wish to suggest that Alpha Bank is not in terrible trouble along with probably dozens of other Russian banks , then blame Kudrin your Minister of Finance . Much of the information came from him and his acolytes . !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Might I nicely suggest you check facts before trying to rubbish material that upsets your mind set .

[saprosky]

Ramonchu, there are some countries (Russia included but GB) that are well knowed in the cyber-world for his ability for cyber-war.

Russian programmers are one of the best in the world, even better than american, in hacking and cracking (not the same) but not the best. Maybe 4th or th in the list.

Also is well knowed in the cyber-world the mutual russian-georgian cyber-attacks previously the last war. This is not new, it happens from many time ago and, as you said, not only Russia and Georgia are involved. UE, USA and some other countries play daily as a computer game.

Russians only control a few part of international communications lines. And the best feature of Inet (thats the reason of itself) is the ability to change nodes when it can't connect.

So be quiet, Russia is not the worst enemy. I am not worried for them. You should be worried for others that are more in quantity and more dangerous.

Oooopss, and if russian create a new Inet just for them, good for us. Isolated networks are easy to block. ;)

(The bad thing is we couldn't flirt with russian ladies :mad: )

[sunontheway]

I don't want to waste my time... you just do not wish to understand what exactly your oponent is trying to say and what's the matter of disagreement with your posts.

NOBODY ever said that Russian banks had no problems. You never listen.

[sunontheway]

saprosky... you forgot about Chinese hackers but this is another story :)

[saprosky]

So be quiet, Russia is not the worst enemy. I am not worried for them. You should be worried for others that are more in quantity and more dangerous.


saprosky... you forgot about Chinese hackers but this is another story :)

I was talking about them: more quantity and more dangerous :becky:

[sunontheway]

I was talking about them: more quantity and more dangerous :becky:

:becky:


All spam goes now with their help, bastards

[saprosky]

I dont agree. The worst is USA and a long distance China and Russia (in this order) at similar level :becky:

Brits are 5th after Korea (in fact they invented SPAM :neener: )

[Lucker]

[QUOTE=saprosky;26924]Ramonchu, there are some countries (Russia included but GB) that are well knowed in the cyber-world for his ability for cyber-war.

Sapristi ,
I am in broad agreement but that was not the subject that was being discussed .
We were specifically talking about the cyber war in the Russia -Georgian spat .
We also should distinguish between listening and interception activities which every country in the world employs to some degree . And deliberate wrecking programmes which may be legitimate or not and fair in war or not . The difference is that Russia used them and to a degree possibly not ever before used anywhere . Georgia , in comparison , were minnows -- unprepared and totally incapable of responding in any worthwhile way .

[Neilikka]

Sorry for interrupting your so exciting discussion, but I still would like to remember you that this topic isn't on the subject of Russia-Georgia or Russia-Estonia affairs. Sorry.

[Lucker]

All subjects morph into the R and G divide .
It' the divide between the Good Guys and the Baddies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bucksbunny]

de standaart,

a know belgium newspaper confirmed the creation of the new DOT BE...suggest to ask zorro to refine BelgiumEnglish.:yield::yield:

so erase nor delete bottom anymore nospacebottomnietherverbs.

capice?


zorozorozoro